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Thread: Ayn Rand

  1. #191
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I've highlighted what I think is the core point to make in relation to Christian re-evaluations of Rand.

    Although the Christian, particularly evangelical, support for capitalism doesnt surprise me, it has been a feature since early misinterpreations of Weber's The Protestant Ethic and The Spirit of Capitalism led some to believe that protestantism and the reformation had an intimate relationship to capitalism and defending/advocating one involved defending and advocating the other.

    I know that in NI and some evangelical currents I'm familiar with there is an assumption that protestantism have a greater cultural attachment to work ethics than others, it has transfered in some ways to other culturally conservative appraisals of ethnicity, ie contrasts between (culturally defined) anglo-saxon, scandinavian, latin rim nations. This to me is a highly confused idea because my own studies of the work ethic in a historical and protestant sense is closely associated with puritanism and could be more correctly described as a ascetism or austerity ethic. That said I'm a little less acquainted with Calvinist ideas about predestination and election as indicated by temporal rewards of good fortune and accrued or accumulated wealth and how they correspond to work ethics and ideas about political economy.

    I'm less familiar still with ideas such as theonomics which appear to me to be along the same idea as the genesis of the theocons, its all a bad idea to try and create a single metanarrative and smacks of totalitarianism but I'll acknowledge my own blindspots and bias when saying that.

    Arguing that capitalism is born of human, all to human, evil is different from proclaiming it as a positive good like Rand did, Smith thought that it was a means of harnessing typical or worst motives to good ends, ie butcher, baker and candlestick maker supplying their services not from benefice and was probably closer to the Quaker ideas about economy binding people together in interdependence.
    The extreme end of this is Reconstructionism (Rushdoony, North), which claims the Bible teaches capitalism, and it does seem to be a very authoritarian philosophy, and at the root of it (especially with the Calvinism), "we're the Chosen ones!" Hence, all this praise of us and our "work ethic", our economic system, the liberals and everyone else are evil and trying to get us, etc. (The Puritans supposedly interpreted Calvinism to mean wealth was a sign of election, though many today have distanced themselves from that).
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  2. #192
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    The extreme end of this is Reconstructionism (Rushdoony, North), which claims the Bible teaches capitalism, and it does seem to be a very authoritarian philosophy, and at the root of it (especially with the Calvinism), "we're the Chosen ones!" Hence, all this praise of us and our "work ethic", our economic system, the liberals and everyone else are evil and trying to get us, etc. (The Puritans supposedly interpreted Calvinism to mean wealth was a sign of election, though many today have distanced themselves from that).
    I've read a lot of the Puritans first hand because they interested me since I was a teenager, along with things like the Spartans, for their embracing of austerity rather than hedonism (which in a particular vulgar incarnation underpins or under writes much of the status quo and I can find alienating from time to time). Most of them accrued wealth from working without reward, saving the money. Although there was a belief in election which I didnt like, I've never liked election as an idea, it's more like elitism properly so called.

  3. #193
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    I can't read all 20 pages of this thread up to this point, but it's interesting to jump to the end and see what direction it drifted off to. Were there any comparisons of Rand to Hitler in previous pages? Just the comparison to Stalin, correct?

    I'm not an Objectivist but I've studied her system and works, and I see a lot of errors in your comments about Rand and her philosophy. Comparing Rand to Stalin? I read one book which compared her to Marx, but only because the author thought Rand was a dialectician and not because he thought she was willing to trample over dead bodies in order to attain her selfish goals. That is a pretty mean-spirited and untrue accusation. Her ideal social system is based on trading value for value, not on trampling over dead bodies or using Stalinesque methods.

    I saw the Atlas Shrugged movie the other day. I thought it was pretty good. Not great, but pretty good for a low-budget film. The audience (the theater was about half full) applauded at the end.

    Rand's Hickman crush was unfortunate. After I read about that some time back, it seemed obvious that she modeled Roark after Hickman. And not very well at that, her ability at characterization was awful.
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  4. #194
    Senior Member Viridian's Avatar
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    Is the movie an independent production or something? They've cast a newcomer as the protagonist, it seems.

    Also, going purely by what I've read on this thread, it seems this guy's going to be the "ideal human being":



    Slinking away from the politics subforum...

  5. #195
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
    Is the movie an independent production or something? They've cast a newcomer as the protagonist, it seems.

    Also, going purely by what I've read on this thread, it seems this guy's going to be the "ideal human being":



    Slinking away from the politics subforum...
    The image wouldn't hot-link so I pasted the link into my browser - who is it? Paul Johansson. Yes, he's the ideal human being. In part I he only appears as a talking rain-coat/shadowy figure. This tactic differs slightly from the novel in which he appears in the first two/thirds of the book as either a shadow or a voiceless-and-nameless mysterious stranger. The reason for the change is that the movie producers did not want viewers to have to wait through two movies to finally get to meet him.

    A black Eddie Willers (Dagny Taggart's right-hand man) in this movie was slightly disturbing yet blacks were seriously under-represented in the novel. Having been written in the early 1950s this is understandable, but easily corrected for the movie version which starts in the year 2016. I understand all the reasons of the producers for doing the movie a certain way. However, the Randroids I know really dislike the movie.
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  6. #196
    Senior Member Viridian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    The image wouldn't hot-link so I pasted the link into my browser - who is it? Paul Johansson. Yes, he's the ideal human being. In part I he only appears as a talking rain-coat/shadowy figure. This tactic differs slightly from the novel in which he appears in the first two/thirds of the book as either a shadow or a voiceless-and-nameless mysterious stranger. The reason for the change is that the movie producers did not want viewers to have to wait through two movies to finally get to meet him.
    Wait, so Galt is the fisherman from I Know What You Did Last Summer?

  7. #197
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
    Wait, so Galt is the fisherman from I Know What You Did Last Summer?
    I don't think so?
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  8. #198
    Senior Member Viridian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    I don't think so?
    I was kind of joking... ^_^'

  9. #199
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
    I was kind of joking... ^_^'

    The movie I know what you did last summer had a fisherman in it who was portrayed as the ideal human?
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  10. #200
    Senior Member Viridian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    The movie I know what you did last summer had a fisherman in it who was portrayed as the ideal human?
    Ah, no, sorry, I meant, you know, because of the raincoat / face framed in shadow thing.

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