User Tag List

First 91011121321 Last

Results 101 to 110 of 214

Thread: Ayn Rand

  1. #101
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx
    Socionics
    SEE Fi
    Posts
    25,301

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    Rand, an emigrant from Lenin's Soviet Union, would likely slap you if you had said that in her presence.
    Well, a bunch of us would probably beat her down, too...so, whatever.

  2. #102
    Oberon
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Well, a bunch of us would probably beat her down, too...so, whatever.
    I don't see what she's got to do with anything...

  3. #103
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx
    Socionics
    SEE Fi
    Posts
    25,301

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    I don't see what she's got to do with anything...
    Why would she exact violence upon ZPowers for noticing a parallel between some aspects of her power-hungry philosophy and Stalin's?

    People who want power, want power...which is why big business can be as deadly as big government.

    Besides, not all people from the former Soviet Union think the same way Rand does. Are we supposed to forgive her nutcase ideology just because she lived in the USSR?

    If she goes around slapping people for their opinions, I'm sure plenty 'o people would be thrilled to slap her right back for hers.

  4. #104
    Senior Member ZPowers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Posts
    1,492

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    Rand, an emigrant from Lenin's Soviet Union, would likely slap you if you had said that in her presence.
    She can slap me if she wants (I noted I found it ironic in an earlier post), but she'd also have to explain why I'm wrong.

    (I also consider Lenin and Stalin pretty different leaders. Lenin desperately did not want Stalin, whom he considered a brute, to replace him and seemed to care somewhat about the people of Russia)

    And she bitched about people getting support from the government even while on Medicare, so screw her and her delicate sensibilities.

    I'd like to add to my last post: Not_Me, you used serial killers vs a faithful dog as an example of life not being inherent of value. But that argument doesn't make sense. Even in the argument, you condemn serial killers, people who feel life is has no inherent value. Basically, they agree with something you believe to be true. How is that a negative? And even Rand preferred a guy who dismembered a 12-year-old to Kant, who at the very least was non-violent and one of the most influential philosophers to ever live (based on a philosophy that basically says killing is always always always wrong, about as far from a serial killer or genocidal maniac as possible).
    Does he want a pillow for his head?

  5. #105
    Oberon
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Why would she exact violence upon ZPowers for noticing a parallel between some aspects of her power-hungry philosophy and Stalin's?

    People who want power, want power...which is why big business can be as deadly as big government.

    Besides, not all people from the former Soviet Union think the same way Rand does. Are we supposed to forgive her nutcase ideology just because she lived in the USSR?

    If she goes around slapping people for their opinions, I'm sure plenty 'o people would be thrilled to slap her right back for hers.
    Oh, no... not even as cold a fish as Ayn Rand would smack someone just for having an opinion. She would, however, probably lay a hand on someone for deliberately misrepresenting Rand's own ideas.

    Rand was a fan of money, and more importantly, wealth, as opposed to power. In her books the heroes are the ones who generate wealth through value-added processes such as manufacturing or transporation; her villains are always the ones who hold the reigns of political power either personally or by proxy, and who use that power to leech a living by the sweat of the hero's brow.

    Stalin would have fit the latter description to the letter. This conflict is, in fact, the major theme in Atlas Shrugged. I'm surprised you didn't perceive this, Marm.

    Rand herself was no heroine in any sense of the word... I wouldn't invite her over to my house, were she alive today... but if you're going to discuss her ideas you should at least have read a couple of her books. Especially if you're planning on, you know, burning her in effigy or something.

  6. #106
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx
    Socionics
    SEE Fi
    Posts
    25,301

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    Oh, no... not even as cold a fish as Ayn Rand would smack someone just for having an opinion. She would, however, probably lay a hand on someone for deliberately misrepresenting Rand's own ideas.

    Rand was a fan of money, and more importantly, wealth, as opposed to power. In her books the heroes are the ones who generate wealth through value-added processes such as manufacturing or transporation; her villains are always the ones who hold the reigns of political power either personally or by proxy, and who use that power to leech a living by the sweat of the hero's brow.

    Stalin would have fit the latter description to the letter. This conflict is, in fact, the major theme in Atlas Shrugged. I'm surprised you didn't perceive this, Marm.

    Rand herself was no heroine in any sense of the word... I wouldn't invite her over to my house, were she alive today... but if you're going to discuss her ideas you should at least have read a couple of her books. Especially if you're planning on, you know, burning her in effigy or something.
    For someone who hates Rand you're getting awfully emotionally involved in defending her and attempting to predict her behavior. She also hated libertarians, and said they were misrepresenting her ideology...did she go around slapping libertarians before her death?

    I love the part about her being on Medicare. That's so awesome.

  7. #107
    Senior Member ZPowers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Posts
    1,492

    Default

    This is why my central analogy has been Goldman-Sachs and the others who caused the 2008 financial meltdown or even defrauded their own customers, but I must say, I was brought to the darker point because on some level I don't see a real difference. Money is, at it's essence, just a form of power, right? Money can make people do things or buy Senators or do darker things: make deals with dictators for cheap labor, order murders. I'm not sure where this ideal of extreme wealth Rand deifies and other means of power really diverge as so different. Why is a billionaire leeching more off of people by whatever means he can and pumping millions into deregulation or to support a Middle Eastern dictator to keep oil prices low so different from that dictator's own, personal, political actions?
    Does he want a pillow for his head?

  8. #108
    Oberon
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    For someone who hates Rand you're getting awfully emotionally involved in defending her and attempting to predict her behavior.
    I'm sorry, Marm, I can't help it; willful ignorance just pisses me off.

    I'll try to do better, okay?

  9. #109
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx
    Socionics
    SEE Fi
    Posts
    25,301

    Default

    Someone seeing parallels between ideologies isn't willful ignorance.

    And you're one to talk about willful ignorance, Mr. "You're trying to Ti with your Fe."

  10. #110
    Oberon
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ZPowers View Post
    This is why my central analogy has been Goldman-Sachs and the others who caused the 2008 financial meltdown or even defrauded their own customers, but I must say, I was brought to the darker point because on some level I don't see a real difference. Money is, at it's essence, just a form of power, right? Money can make people do things or buy Senators or do darker things: make deals with dictators for cheap labor, order murders. I'm not sure where this ideal of extreme wealth Rand deifies and other means of power really diverge as so different. Why is a billionaire leeching more off of people by whatever means he can and pumping millions into deregulation or to support a Middle Eastern dictator to keep oil prices low so different from that dictator's own, personal, political actions?
    So I guess you've never read Atlas Shrugged either?

    One of the heroes, Hank Rearden, gets into trouble with government regulation specifically because he's not willing to play the lobbying game. Rand detested industrial graft and saved her ugliest characterizations in the book for people who practiced it.

    Look, guys, I'm still not a Rand fan, but I do believe in the truth, and some of what you've been saying about Rand in this thread just hasn't been true.

    I think I'd rather bail out than fight about it, honestly. It's not worth getting worked up about.

Similar Threads

  1. Ayn Rand is undoubtedly an ENTJ not an INTJ
    By Harlow_Jem in forum Popular Culture and Type
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 11-10-2017, 12:55 AM
  2. Ayn Rand: The Ultimate INTJ
    By Into It in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: 05-20-2011, 09:44 PM
  3. AYN RAND'S VAGINA SMOKING A BONG
    By Ginkgo in forum The Fluff Zone
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 01-25-2010, 02:01 AM
  4. Ayn Rand fandom and type
    By Economica in forum Popular Culture and Type
    Replies: 39
    Last Post: 11-10-2008, 01:45 AM
  5. [INTJ] The Fountainhead/Atlas Shrugged/Ayn Rand's Objectivism and INTJ's
    By Harlow_Jem in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 44
    Last Post: 07-03-2008, 01:06 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO