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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I have an answer! No. It's basically a dilemma. You pick one to fix now and try to deal with the other afterward. I'm personally more concerned with the lack of jobs + slow growth than I am the deficit.
    This is the part I don't understand, either. I do understand that the budget needs to be balanced, but I would think that getting the nation's economy back on track would be on the forefront.

    It seems as though they're putting principle before practicality, IMO.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    Well God bless you, Marm... God bless you.

    [rolls eyes]
    Could you say the same of any moderate Democrats?

  3. #53
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    It seems as though they're putting principle before practicality, IMO.
    Nawwwww!

    Actually, there are two kinds involved here. There are ideologues who are, as you say, putting principle before practicality, or perhaps adhering to their preconceived guidelines without concern for results/consequences. Then, there are the corrupt crooks that know full well they aren't doing anything sensible, but either directly benefit or get big bucks from the people who benefit from these changes. I mean, that ass who proposed the 4 trillion dollar cut also wants to lower income taxes on top earners to 25%. I find it hard to believe he actually thinks he's doing something good for the entire nation.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Nawwwww!

    Actually, there are two kinds involved here. There are ideologues who are, as you say, putting principle before practicality, or perhaps adhering to their preconceived guidelines without concern for results/consequences. Then, there are the corrupt crooks that know full well they aren't doing anything sensible, but either directly benefit or get big bucks from the people who benefit from these changes. I mean, that ass who proposed the 4 trillion dollar cut also wants to lower income taxes on top earners to 25%. I find it hard to believe he actually thinks he's doing something good for the entire nation.
    I wholeheartedly agree, which was what I was alluding to when I said Boehner was hiding behind "support the troops" as propaganda instead of being honest about the real agenda.

    It disgusts me that anyone would placate the tea party group to this extent, primarily as they are for the most part comprised of rich old white men:

    Tea Party supporters are mainly white and slightly more likely to be male, married, older than 45, more conservative than the general population, and likely to be more wealthy and have more education
    I can understand the concept of keeping in mind ALL PEOPLE and that diversity is necessary, but it seems pretty clear to me that this extremist group wants to change the system to do nothing more than cater to their own whims and preserve their traditional power. They can't stand the idea apparently that the rest of the American population - non-white, non-Christian, non-wealthy, whatever - might exist and have rights too.

  5. #55
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    The troops. The fucking troops. Somebody should seriously punch Boehner. It's a fucking pathetic piece of propaganda used to shield their real agenda.
    Don't do that. You'd mess up his spray-on tan... or at least get some on your fingers.

    One thing I did kinda hate, though, in that environment was feeling like I was accused of not supporting the military simply because I was too moderate.

    Boehner isn't necessarily an opportunist; I think he believes in that message to some large degree... and it's not like much of his constituency doesn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Could you say the same of any moderate Democrats?
    I hope so... Obie? Say you love me....



    [Actually, I view myself as an independent... technically.]
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  6. #56
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    No, these people are extremists because they want to change the entire system for their own pet moral causes.
    Well... you're currently doing a pretty damn good impression of their mirror image.

    The VAST majority of republicans have no stake in the social issues, i.e. abortion, gay marriage etc. Referring to the conservative extreme as frequently as you do gives the impression, from your side's POV at least, that all Republicans think as our extremists do.

    I could have harped about how Obama represents the socialization of American politics, but I didn't and won't. I could get on my soapbox about Dennis Kucinich and his ilk, but I don't.

    Do you know why?

    Because I realize that there is more to the Democratic point of view than tax and spend.

    What you haven't realized is that for our political system to reach such an unpalatable impasse as this, we must be facing a fairly serious situation. If it wasn't for our nearly insurmountable debt, the republican party wouldn't unify sufficiently to attempt to pass a budget that has so many social issue riders as the Ryan Budget does.

    Not to mention you guys did the exact same God damn thing when Obama got into office. Facing a serious fiscal crisis and crushing unemployment, what do y'all do? Legislate your morals (universal healthcare is the biggest democratic wet dream ever) by pushing through health care reform when you did, instead of focus on the most pressing issues with the economy and wait till later for your pet projects.

    So I don't wanna hear about how fucked up it is that our budget includes proposals to defund planned parenthood.

    We're just playing the game as it's always been played. Your opening offer is never as much as you are willing to pay now is it?

    I want to see some reasonable discussion where we can meet in the middle, as I am freely willing to do.

    For instance...

    I'll freely admit that taxes should probably be raised, and the code simplified. I just think that the raises should be equal across all tax brackets (or the govt has effectively subsidized a disincentive to work hard, not to mention legislatively discriminating against a class of people based merely upon socioeconomic status).

    I'll also admit that we need to get out of the middle east before it sinks us, and that we need to rethink the way we fund the Pentagon.

    I try to meet the opposition half way, because that's how our system works...

    By compromise.

    It would be refreshing to see some concessions from your side for a change of pace.

    P.S. - I got to speak to Paul Ryan on the phone last week.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Don't do that. You'd mess up his spray-on tan... or at least get some on your fingers.

    One thing I did kinda hate, though, in that environment was feeling like I was accused of not supporting the military simply because I was too moderate.

    Boehner isn't necessarily an opportunist; I think he believes in that message to some large degree... and it's not like much of his constituency doesn't.



    I hope so... Obie? Say you love me....



    [Actually, I view myself as an independent... technically.]
    I generally defer to soldiers who have served in war time out of respect, and I cry at memorials of the dead from the war in Iraq. I come from a pretty strongly military family, though I do not at all have the personality for that kind of structure and level of emotional removal that it would require to do that work, I still respect people are capable of it, because they have different strengths than me, and many serve their country dutifully.

    I also understand that war is a necessary evil, and while I am certainly not pro-war, I do understand that certain measures have to be taken for practical reasons.

    To that end, it pisses me THE FUCK OFF when people say Democrats don't support the troops or some such nonsense. Hilary Clinton is actually regarded by some extremist liberals as "a war hawk." So it just strikes me as irrational pandering to try to throw that up to distract the public at large from the fact that in reality, the Republicans don't want to compromise after the Dems already have done so. What they're trying to push is excessive, as though they're attempting to take advantage of the situation to gain a foothold.

  8. #58
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaotic Harmony View Post
    Yet, you mention Wisconsin's union activists before that statement.
    Yes, because they were threatening people, a fact that was grossly underreported in the mainstream press. I mentioned them to draw attention to the relative lack of threatening actions on the part of the tea parties.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Well... you're currently doing a pretty damn good impression of their mirror image.

    The VAST majority of republicans have no stake in the social issues, i.e. abortion, gay marriage etc. Referring to the conservative extreme as frequently as you do gives the impression, from your side's POV at least, that all Republicans think as our extremists do.
    Yes, I know all this, which is why I've already stated that I respect some moderate Republicans and am bashing, specifically, the extremists who are causing unnecessary trouble. No one is attacking you.

    I'll freely admit that taxes should probably be raised, and the code simplified. I just think that the raises should be equal across all tax brackets (or the govt has effectively subsidized a disincentive to work hard, not to mention legislatively discriminating against a class of people based merely upon socioeconomic status).

    I'll also admit that we need to get out of the middle east before it sinks us, and that we need to rethink the way we fund the Pentagon.

    I try to meet the opposition half way, because that's how our system works...

    By compromise.

    It would be refreshing to see some concessions from your side for a change of pace.

    P.S. - I got to speak to Paul Ryan on the phone last week.
    If you actually read my posts and not just my harangues about tea partiers, Objectivists, and the screaming irrational fundamentalist "Christian Right", you would have noticed that I'm actually a moderate Democrat and that I just praised Condeleeza Rice and have repeatedly said in this thread that I hope some sane, rational Republicans would step in here...and I would consider you a sane and rational Republican according to the second part I just quoted from your post. However, that still doesn't detract from the fact that we're speaking at the moment about the teabagging fucktards and people taking extremist, non-compromising measures at the expense of the entire gov't being shut down.

    Again, NO ONE IS TALKING ABOUT YOU.

  10. #60
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    Which is why I said:

    Referring to the conservative extreme as frequently as you do gives the impression, from your side's POV at least, that all Republicans think as our extremists do.
    The fact that a curiously high number of your political posts involve the tea party, and general anger against the same, GIVES THE IMPRESSION, that those concerned with social issues comprise the majority.

    I never argued that you think that, but merely that the frequency with which you bitch about the tea party gives that impression to outside viewers.

    That post was a request, that you forgo getting all hung up on the Ryan budget (which doesn't have a snowflakes chance in hell of passing), and possibly mention the debt, or make some sort of concession.

    Also I would greatly appreciate it if you would address this argument:

    Not to mention you guys did the exact same God damn thing when Obama got into office. Facing a serious fiscal crisis and crushing unemployment, what do y'all do? Legislate your morals (universal healthcare is the biggest democratic wet dream ever) by pushing through health care reform when you did, instead of focus on the most pressing issues with the economy and wait till later for your pet projects.

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