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  1. #21
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    It's because people are trying to use this for their pet moral interests. My favorite is the Cocksucker...I mean Congressman who said he'd shut down the government just to stop funding to Planned Parenthood, since he's against abortion.

    These are the people we have deciding the fate of our entire country's fucking economy. Bravo.

    Disco - this government shutdown could debilitate the economy even further and push us back into a recession. It's not just about government workers getting "a paid vacation."

  2. #22
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    this government shutdown could debilitate the economy even further and push us back into a recession.
    How?

    Government shutdown: FAQs
    http://money.cnn.com/2011/04/04/news...wn_faq/?hpt=T1

    NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- If Congress fails to approve a spending bill by Friday, the federal government will shut down. And boy, things aren't looking good.

    Lawmakers have been trying to reach a compromise that would set spending levels for the next six months. Those negotiations continued Tuesday at the White House, and it appears things did not go well.

    After the meeting, House Speaker John Boehner accused the White House of proposing cuts that amount to "smoke and mirrors."

    And President Obama made a rare appearance at the White House press briefing, where he berated Republicans for including hot-button political initiatives in their proposal.

    It appears the two sides are still billion of dollars away from striking a deal. With time running out, a shutdown is looking ever more likely.

    If it comes to that, agencies won't be able to spend money, and parts of the federal government will close up shop.

    Which services would stop? During the last major shutdowns in the final days of 1995 and early 1996, the government closed 368 National Park Service sites, along with national museums and monuments.

    In addition, 200,000 passport applications went unprocessed and toxic waste cleanup work at 609 sites stopped. The National Institutes of Health stopped accepting new clinical research patients and services for veterans, including health care, were curtailed.

    Work on bankruptcy cases could slow. In the last shutdown, more than 3,500 cases were delayed.

    Which services would the government keep running? Agencies are allowed to perform any operations necessary for the safety of human life and protection of property.

    The government would keep essential services -- such as air traffic control and the national security apparatus -- in full operating mode.

    Federal workers who provide medical care on the job would be kept on, as would employees who handle hazardous waste, inspect food, patrol the borders, protect federal property, guard inmates or work in power distribution.

    Workers who protect essential elements of the money and banking system would also report to work.

    The Postal Service, which is self-funded, will continue to operate.

    How many federal workers would be furloughed? The government went dark twice during the Clinton administration: Some 800,000 workers were sent home during the first shutdown and 284,000 were sent home during the later shutdown.
    Workers in shutdown limbo

    It is unclear how many workers would be furloughed in a new shutdown. Each federal agency has its own plan to wind down operations, and administration officials have not released details.

    Will Social Security benefits be mailed? During the last major shutdown, the Social Security Administration mailed checks throughout the crisis, and a close reading of established law makes clear the agency has the legal authority to do so again.

    During the Clinton-era shutdown, new Social Security claims weren't being processed because the agency furloughed 61,415 employees. As the shutdown wore on, the agency adjusted its plan and recalled workers to start processing new claims.

    Will troops overseas get the resources they need? Yes. While some Pentagon activities would stop, it would continue many other operations necessary for the safety of human life and protection of property.

    However, the Department of Defense says that if the government shuts down for an extended period, troops might not be paid on time.

    How long will a shutdown last? Hard to say. Between 1977 and 1980, there were six shutdowns ranging from eight to 17 days.

    Nine shutdowns occurred between 1980 and 1995, and none lasted longer than three full days.

    The Clinton-era shutdowns lasted five days and 21 days. Since that episode the federal government has suffered no similar shutdown.

    Most political strategists agree that the Clinton-era shutdowns politically benefited the sitting president, who was able to paint Republicans as obstructionist.

    If a shutdown does come to fruition, the current crop of Republicans will be looking to avoid the same fate.

    How did we get here? Typically, lawmakers pass 12 appropriations bills for the president's approval. Those bills give federal agencies the legal authority to spend and conduct business.

    This year, not one of the 12 has been approved by the Senate.

    Instead, lawmakers have relied on continuing resolutions. If lawmakers are able to pass another short-term fix, it would be the fifth of the fiscal year.
    I don't think any shutdown would last longer than 2 weeks.

  3. #23
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    In the current economy, more than a few days would be bad.

    The economy is not in neat little plastic containers, it is more like a web that is interconnected. That means while 800,000 government workers are temporarily laid off (and there is actually questioning that has been voiced even by Congress members that there is actually no guarantee those workers will ever be paid, and that this is different from 1995) ...the economies of businesses surrounding things like tourism to the Smithsonian will be impacted...this also effects non-related jobs in places which get a lot of tourism, and also mortgage/housing could be affected. It's like a ripple effect, which a stronger economy might not feel, but our economy is too weak for this to even last "a couple of weeks" and some economists are saying this could actually slow our real GDP in the coming year, and also in 2012.

  4. #24
    Senior Member fripping's Avatar
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    "federal employees can continue work needed to safeguard human life, to protect federal property or to shut down government functions in an orderly way. "

    oh poo it's not a full-on apocalypse yet.

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    It's a funny situation. The US has:

    - monetary sovereignty
    - knowingly amped up public debt through QE 1&2

    and now all of a sudden they understand there's a costitutional limit on debt, as if everything happened by chance.
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  6. #26
    Uniqueorn William K's Avatar
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    In the end it's all a high-stake poker game of politics. Both sides could see this coming and both waited to score the most points. The question is whether they've both overplayed their hand and can no longer back down and compromise.

    Serious economic question. Can there be a sensible plan from either party to both reduce debt and reduce unemployment in the near future?
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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    How?

    I don't think any shutdown would last longer than 2 weeks.
    Time. I'll let you come up with the many catchphrases related to it.

  8. #28
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    I guarantee it won't happen. So no worries people.

    And when it doesn't happen, I'm also quoting this post to brag about my prediction.

    Republicans tried it in 1995-96, and took all the blame, and it helped Clinton get re-elected. The same thing would happen this time, as polls are already indicating.

  9. #29
    The Eighth Colour Octarine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by William K View Post
    Can there be a sensible plan from either party to both reduce debt and reduce unemployment in the near future?
    Yes. Withdraw troops from the middle east. Significant cuts to the military budget.

    Look at a detailed budget overview and you will see there are non essential things that can be cut (eg space technology, rather than medical research). Maybe state governments will have to pick up the slack. But the fact is that the Federal government of the USA is far too large to manage effectively and there is not nearly enough accountability.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    I'm honestly wondering if these people want a civil war. The rest of the world must think our country is full of complete morons.

    Remember this?



    Quote Originally Posted by William K View Post
    In the end it's all a high-stake poker game of politics. Both sides could see this coming and both waited to score the most points. The question is whether they've both overplayed their hand and can no longer back down and compromise.
    Yeah, in that sense it's really nothing different than what it has been and everyone knows it has been; it's just that right now, since the budget has to be approved before life goes on, everything has come to a head.

    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    I don't think any shutdown would last longer than 2 weeks.
    Realistically, I wouldn't expect it to last long in the BIG scheme of things.

    However, all the people who might basically lose that much pay -- in an economy where even people with decent jobs are inadvertently living paycheck to paycheck -- still would consider that a big deal. Like I said, I cannot afford to lose two weeks of pay right now. (I was finally also beginning to dig myself out of a hole, and ... well what do you know? I just got kicked back in.)

    And it seems so needless.
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