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  1. #161

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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    The right has definitely got the drop on the left creatively these days, no arguing with that at all. No siree.

  2. #162
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    The right has definitely got the drop on the left creatively these days, no arguing with that at all. No siree.
    Eh... if I coulda found a graphic with a matching "W" on it I would have used that. Our current debt crisis was a bipartisan effort.

  3. #163

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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    Eh... if I coulda found a graphic with a matching "W" on it I would have used that. Our current debt crisis was a bipartisan effort.
    W?

    In some sense I know what you mean, the libertarian right have done a great job of branding the main parties of which they feel they are the legit opposition as social and military keynesianism, their alternative to the two being untried and untested but true.

    I dont agree with it though, its not a framing of the debate I accept.

  4. #164
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    In some sense I know what you mean, the libertarian right have done a great job of branding the main parties of which they feel they are the legit opposition as social and military keynesianism, their alternative to the two being untried and untested but true.

    I dont agree with it though, its not a framing of the debate I accept.
    One doesn't have to be a libertarian to understand that a nation cannot accumulate debt continuously forever. The US government has borrowed some fraction of its operating budget every year for my entire life, through administrations both liberal and conservative, through congresses likewise. During all this time, nobody saw fit to actually set taxes and spending at levels that were mutually sustainable.

    Now we are at the place where the fixes are no longer mere tune-ups... the government is borrowing about 40 percent of every dollar it spends. To make that stop, revenue and expenditures must be corrected an aggregated 40 percent. The current budget agreement, of which our present "leaders" are so proud, doesn't even come close.

    If nothing is done, there will come a day when the US can no longer sell a T-bill because there will be no investors who believe that the US will be able to make good on the debt that the T-bill represents. When that day comes, our currency will become worthless and our economy, no great shakes as it is, will experience what history will call the Great Depression.

    What I'm talking with you about has only the most tenuous connection with politics; neither do these economic realities give a rat's ass about what we'll accept.

    Parties? [spits] A pox on all their houses.

  5. #165

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    Well blaming it all on capracious government borrowing and spending is one explanation, its as easily explained as globalisation processes, the Chinese had, and to a certain extent still do, a capacity to save all or almost all their money, Americans spend, international banks used the savings of one nation to bankroll the loans of another, that globalisation process resulted in irrational exubberance and bad decisions, and that's all besides government taxing and spending.

    The collosal gambles which the banks took, mandating the bailouts, were what put all other spending in sharp relief, it wouldnt have been a problem if the unpredictatble and unprecidented financial crisis hadnt occured.

    Most the supposedly non-partisan and common sensical criticisms of government spending and deficits take little account of just how mixed modern economies are, while businesses may begrudge in taxes today they'll be none the less thankful of as revenue or profit margins tommorrow.

  6. #166
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Well blaming it all on capracious government borrowing and spending is one explanation...
    I should make it clear to you, Lark, I was pissed about the deficit when I was in high school... circa 1980.

    Having a government keep its revenue and spending in line with each other is a necessary practice in the long term no matter how "mixed" the modern economies are. No amount of accounting technique will change the fundamentals of fiscal responsibility, which have been understood by governments since William of Normandy commissioned the Domesday Book.

  7. #167
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Yay Obama!

    I'm completely pleased with the way he salvaged this. I was beginning to be sorry that I voted for him, but he pulled through.
    As long as the firebrands don't ruin every thing.
    Last edited by Rail Tracer; 04-14-2011 at 12:04 AM.

  8. #168
    The Eighth Colour Octarine's Avatar
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    Does anyone remember this prediction:
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123051100709638419.html

    He was almost right. :p

  9. #169
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    Not to burst anyones bubble, but the US is not out of the woods yet. The debt ceiling is still there, and if the fed does another round of money hocus pocus...inflation can definatly give cause to civil unrest. Lets see what happens this July, when quarterly earnings reports come out. Remember japan's disaster wreaked havoc on the electronics market, and all the businesses tied to the disaster.

  10. #170
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Architectonic View Post
    Does anyone remember this prediction:
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123051100709638419.html

    He was almost right. :p
    Really? It's making me think more about generation theory and the 4th turning.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tantive View Post
    Not to burst anyones bubble, but the US is not out of the woods yet. The debt ceiling is still there, and if the fed does another round of money hocus pocus...inflation can definatly give cause to civil unrest. Lets see what happens this July, when quarterly earnings reports come out. Remember japan's disaster wreaked havoc on the electronics market, and all the businesses tied to the disaster.
    It'll only get worse with the partisan politics.

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