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Thread: Smoking Ban

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by WildCard View Post
    Our little town recently imposed a smoking ban. Now you can't smoke in ANY of the shops or within 25 feet of any store front. Now, this doesn't really bother me. What stokes me, however, is the fact that you can't be on the road and smoke. A cop can pull you over and give you a $250 fine for the first offense, the second is a $500 fine, and the third can be as high as $1200.

    What's even better is that you can be on your own private property smoking, but if you're too close to the road, you can get a damn ticket.

    I wasn't even aware of the ban until a cop pulled me over at three this morning because my passenger was smoking. We were told to put the cig out and that the next time we would get a fine.

    Seriously. What the hell? What do you guys think?
    The county I live in is instituting a similar ban. No smoking within 45 feet of county property effective July 1. That includes no smoking in your car if its in a county owned parking lot. I understand no smoking on county property but not to smoke in your own car is taking it too far.
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  2. #12
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    we have 15 feet from the door of a building, but you can drive and smoke or walk down the street and smoke. But it pisses me off, that they're now saying you can't smoke while driving. It's like really?! I swear each year this country is becoming more and more a nanny state. and I don't like it, I want some of my rights back. I'm fine with going outside to smoke, but if I can't even smoke outside away from people than there's problems. Slowly things that should be personal choice are becoming public's problems because the government and lobbyist are making it so. I need to live in another country for awhile, and decide if the U.S. is actually the right place for me.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by dala View Post
    It can be hard to detect sarcasm on the internet, especially since you know that there are some people who believe what it is you're saying, no matter how ridiculous.

    I am a bit biased on this issue. I grew up in a house with smokers, and as a result I developed chronic headaches, so I have some negative associations with cigarettes. I also live in an area where smoking is not permitted in bars or restaurants, and I appreciate that fact, because it makes visiting these places more enjoyable for me.

    The decision cannot be made on an individual basis in a meaningful way because it leads to a race to the bottom. If every bar allows smoking, or every bar does not, then everyone is on even footing. If every bar allows smoking, and one does not, that puts it at a competitive disadvantage. While a significant number of people (particularly employees) might appreciate the ban, there is a societal bias toward a smoking and drinking association, and these types of biases are hard to overcome. The only way to create a situation that is (arguably) preferable for everyone involved is to legislate the issue.

    All that being said, I question the need to prevent people from smoking in open outdoor areas, or in their cars or homes, as long as they are not endangering the health of anyone else (particularly children).
    This is part of the problem.
    There is a lot of "Maybes" "Could be's" and "mights" going on here.

    I grew up in a house pf smokers as well and never developed headaches.
    My ex GFs father died of lung cancer at the age of 35 , never smoked in his life.
    My Grandfather smoke 40 unfiltered cigarettes a day until he had a heart attack at 75, then he cut down to 25 a day and lived to 90 and died of liver failure.

    So it might not be cigarettes that cause headaches and lung cancer.

    The only totally proven link, is the pulmonary illness link, and the effects on reflux.

    All the cancer links are not proven beyond a doubt, nor are other effects like headaches.

    Maybe you get headaches and that is unpleasant I am sure.
    But should people no where near you , not smoke because of it??

    It's like no one can think for themselves any more.

  4. #14
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dala View Post
    The decision cannot be made on an individual basis in a meaningful way because it leads to a race to the bottom. If every bar allows smoking, or every bar does not, then everyone is on even footing. If every bar allows smoking, and one does not, that puts it at a competitive disadvantage. While a significant number of people (particularly employees) might appreciate the ban, there is a societal bias toward a smoking and drinking association, and these types of biases are hard to overcome. The only way to create a situation that is (arguably) preferable for everyone involved is to legislate the issue.
    In other words, most bar patrons prefer to have the option to smoke, and you wish to forcibly limit the utility of most patrons for your own benefit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    In other words, most bar patrons prefer to have the option to smoke, and you wish to forcibly limit the utility of most patrons for your own benefit.
    That's not it at all. My post was an answer to Beargryllz question of why this decision can't be effectively made on an individual basis.

    Think of it like the use of QWERTY keyboards over superior configurations like DVORAK. QWERTY was the most commonly used system when DVORAK came out, and in order for it to become popular two things would have to happen: typists, businesses, and schools would have to adopt the technology, keyboards would have to be retooled. With almost the entire market using QWERTY, no school or business is going to teach the new system, and without business support, typists don't bother. Without support in the community, reconfigured keyboards aren't produced. It has proven impossible to gain the momentum needed to switch to a standard that would create a better outcome for everyone.

    In order for smoke-free bars and restaurants to be viable, you have to overcome similar momentum. Businesses are unwilling to change unless everyone does because they worry about losing customers. Customers are unwilling to choose an establishment based solely on non-smoking status, even if they prefer it (often because of that one friend who smokes). Employees, who are arguably the most affected by smoking, have to choose between their future health and a steady paycheck, and immediate needs tend to win out. It may be that 80% of all restaurant and bar patrons prefer a non-smoking environment, but getting the momentum going to change the status quo needs to be coordinated if it is to happen at all. There are simply times when the best solution and the free market solution are not the same thing.

    @arclight - I meant those comments as a disclosure of personal biases, not a reason to ban smoking. I recognize that personal anecdotes are not a viable reason for limiting smoking.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    we have 15 feet from the door of a building, but you can drive and smoke or walk down the street and smoke. But it pisses me off, that they're now saying you can't smoke while driving. It's like really?! I swear each year this country is becoming more and more a nanny state. and I don't like it, I want some of my rights back. I'm fine with going outside to smoke, but if I can't even smoke outside away from people than there's problems. Slowly things that should be personal choice are becoming public's problems because the government and lobbyist are making it so. I need to live in another country for awhile, and decide if the U.S. is actually the right place for me.
    I know they say quitters are the worst smokers and I want to follow this tradition by saying: I dont think the law wants to stop you from smoking, it rather wants to prevent non-smokers from passive smoking. This is a real problem, especially in closed rooms and you can get into a conflict between morale and fairness here
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  7. #17
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    how is me being in my car alone making other smoke passively? how?
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    I know they say quitters are the worst smokers and I want to follow this tradition by saying: I dont think the law wants to stop you from smoking, it rather wants to prevent non-smokers from passive smoking. This is a real problem, especially in closed rooms and you can get into a conflict between morale and fairness here
    Seriously! Even when I was a smoker I understood this. No one is trying to get you to quit smoking, they're trying to protect other people from passively inhaling your second-hand smoke. My rights end where yours begin.

    I think everyone needs to take a fucking high school sociology class.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    how is me being in my car alone making other smoke passively? how?
    That's a different thing I agree. I dunno why they are prohibiting smoking in cars in America but in Germany it made sense. Since 99% of the cars here are a manual, smoking in the car has in fact led to accidents (they banned mobiles aswell). Why they are banning it nonetheless in America I dont understand in that regards.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    This is part of the problem.
    There is a lot of "Maybes" "Could be's" and "mights" going on here.

    I grew up in a house pf smokers as well and never developed headaches.
    My ex GFs father died of lung cancer at the age of 35 , never smoked in his life.
    My Grandfather smoke 40 unfiltered cigarettes a day until he had a heart attack at 75, then he cut down to 25 a day and lived to 90 and died of liver failure.

    So it might not be cigarettes that cause headaches and lung cancer.

    The only totally proven link, is the pulmonary illness link, and the effects on reflux.

    All the cancer links are not proven beyond a doubt, nor are other effects like headaches.

    Maybe you get headaches and that is unpleasant I am sure.
    But should people no where near you , not smoke because of it??

    It's like no one can think for themselves any more.
    Well, you can always go to Russia and smoke. Like half of the adult population there smokes and cigarettes are like dirt cheap, including Marlboros.

    However, the average age of death there is about ten years below ours.

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