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  1. #51
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    The email from that article is not falsified, and reflects not only a not-so-subtle attempt to intimidate or muzzle Coulter, but illustrates how Canadian laws allow violations of free speech rights. And that was just the first example I found. Oh, and the details of the event itself are rather ambigious: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/25/wo...25coulter.html
    Yeah, they warned her that inciting racial hatred is against the law, basically, but they did absolutely nothing to prevent or discourage her in any way from speaking at all. And the details aren't ambiguous. I read that story from multiple unrelated and reputable sources, both local and otherwise (although there was a strong initial reaction to the assumed muzzling before people knew the facts of the situation, definitely). She definitely cancelled the event herself, and then whined about it to the press. Someone who makes the kinds of comments she does looks pretty foolish when she complains about other people peacefully exercising their free speech to protest her. Douchebag. (her, not you)

    Here's some more about Canadian laws against free speech:

    http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/gl...0/03/22/canada

    http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ed...n_free_speech/

    http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2008/06/12/...o-free-speech/

    I could easily go on, but that would be rather boring. Canadian laws violate free speech rights, and that's pretty much the consensus of both the left and right in America. No one is accusing you of totalitarianism, but then, opposing gay marriage (which I support, btw) is not exactly the same as theocratic talibanization, either.
    I can't say for sure, but I'm pretty sure the US also has laws against inciting racial hatred, although they may not be as "restrictive" as Canada's. Complete freedom of speech isn't legal in any civilized country that I'm aware of. Everyone will have a different opinion on where that line should be drawn. It's not simply "US = free speech, Canada = big brother"
    -end of thread-

  2. #52
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    Can I muzzle Ann Coulter?

  3. #53
    Resident Snot-Nose GZA's Avatar
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    I'm no political expert, but I would be shocked if a conversation about liberalism/conservativism in Canada would sound the same as a liberalism/convervativism conversation in another country. And I'm about 99% sure it is very different from the states.

    There is a place for both, which is why both exist with such popularity, it is just a matter of implementing them based on what the needs of the nation are at that time.

    I like your description of suburbia though. It sounds exactly like the neighborhood I grew up in, which is a very affluent neighborhood of an affluent conservative town of hard working, affluent, rational people. And it always votes liberal.

  4. #54
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    Yeah, they warned her that inciting racial hatred is against the law, basically, but they did absolutely nothing to prevent or discourage her in any way from speaking at all.
    You know that's how a 'freezing effect' and self-censorship works, right? You are missing the point by concentrating on a tangential point (the degree to which student protesters prevented Coulter from speaking) rather than the laws in Canada that violate free speech.

  5. #55
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    That was the second half of my post....everyone disagrees on where the line is between verbal abuse etc. and free speech. I'm ok with that. I haven't seen any catastrophic effects resulting from those laws.

    It's kinda like the forum, actually. Half the people think mods should moderate less, half the people think mods should moderate more. Can't win over everyone. Just have to do what seems reasonable and fair.
    -end of thread-

  6. #56
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    What are you calling extreme? Please help me understand.

    No I'm not Canadian, but I like Canadians. My post is *not* about Canadians; it's a much broader scope than that. My post is in response to the comments made regarding conservatives & liberals. My goal was to give a logical argument from a conservative standpoint. We have many of the same controversial issues here as you do there.
    I'll pay you 20$ for every logical argument you can point out in your post. Go on.

    Btw, me being a moderator has nothing to do with this conversation. I'm not in any way implying that your post needs moderation. It doesn't break any rules. It's simply not logical, and has many similarities with political attack ads - irrational fearmongering, exaggeration/flat-out lies, lots and lots of namecalling, and utter lack of any real arguments. It has nothing to do with moderating that I'm pointing that out.

    But thanks for your advice on how to "be a good moderator".
    -end of thread-

  7. #57
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    That was the second half of my post....everyone disagrees on where the line is between verbal abuse etc. and free speech. I'm ok with that. I haven't seen any catastrophic effects resulting from those laws.

    It's kinda like the forum, actually. Half the people think mods should moderate less, half the people think mods should moderate more. Can't win over everyone. Just have to do what seems reasonable and fair.
    This forum, though, is the private property of an individual: someone can be banned, but would not face criminal prosecution for saying something unpopular.

    In any event, this entire tangent started as an off-the-cuff example to illustrate that social conservatives with religious convictions are not a greater civil liberties threat than other societal groups.

  8. #58
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Can I muzzle Ann Coulter?
    No, but you can ignore her or call her a demogagic bitch.

  9. #59
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    One has to define civil liberties though. Civil liberty don't mean you can do whatever the hell you want. There has to be some control in society because we actually have to live together. People who infringe upon others have to be stopped. Violence can be incited through hate speech, and there is a line between "free speech" and "unpopular opinions" and actually inciting violence against groups of people.

  10. #60
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    One has to define civil liberties though. Civil liberty don't mean you can do whatever the hell you want. There has to be some control in society because we actually have to live together. People who infringe upon others have to be stopped. Violence can be incited through hate speech, and there is a line between "free speech" and "unpopular opinions" and actually inciting violence against groups of people.
    There is also a huge difference between 'incitement of hatred' and 'incitement of violence'; outlawing the former results in unequal protection in practice, grants authorities too much power over individuals, and generally just leaves to much open to subjective interpretation and therefore has great potential for abuse by those in power.

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