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  1. #31
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    [YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDTmpXj9vyM"]Harper thinks democracy means forming coalitions in Canada's political system[/YOUTUBE]

    ... in 1997, when it was presumed that the Liberals would reign for a while. Does democracy have a different definition depending on who is in power?
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  2. #32
    Senior Member countrygirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    Countrygirl, why would the Harper's religion make a difference to you? (I'm not saying that in a confrontational way, but because I want to better understand your perspective). I mean, if Harper was any other religion than conservative Christian, would it bother you? He's not running on a religious platform, and has repeatedly stated that he doesn't plan to take on issues that many would consider as those belonging to the religious right.

    I do feel that our belief system influences what decisions we make and how we lead. However, it bothers me no end to see people not investigating the religious beliefs of ALL candidates across the board so that they are making an informed choice. Would you have any worries about a leader who was Catholic? What about Muslim? What about atheist or agnostic? What about Hindu or Buddhist? Wouldn't all of these have differing effects on the values and assumptions of those who subscribe to those belief systems?
    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    A conservative says "I don't like abortions, so nobody should have one".
    A conservative says "I don't like gay marriage, so nobody should have one".
    A conservative says "I don't like stem cell research, so nobody should do it".

    (but to Harper's credit, he hasn't touched these...so far at least. Some conservatives in the country are very unhappy about that, though.)
    I'm glad you asked fidelia! Simply because religion does influence the choices we make if we are religiously inclined. Granted that state and religion has been separated for a very long time in Western society that normally it doesn't tend to conflict with each other in politics. So in general I have no problems with people's religious background. However, when one wants to live a religious life and live by its moral standards, in politics this makes it a theocracy state, not demoncracy. When a person decides to run for office, they must ensure that they reflect the people not their personal choice or their religion especially in a country like Canada.

    Harper's leadership style comes across as a dictatorship to me. For example, cherry picking his media to represent him rather than having multiply representations that with conflict with him. Anyone of his ministers who dare to speak to media without his permission will probably lose his/her seat.

    He has tried with a minority government to ramrod his policies without Parliment approval. You can only do that with a majority government. (As you can see in the media, he has lied to Parliment and one of his ministers has provided fraudulant papers.) He does know this so I think his lips are sealed on issues that reflect what Randomnity posted about conservatives in general. So of course a religious platform will not go over well in federal politics despite his beliefs in his religious ideologies.

    Whether we like it or not, major religions does not give women the freedom that men have. Men are considered above women. Period. At one point in Western history, men owned women's bodies when they're married so there was no such thing as spousal rape. And it is still that way today in some countries. So I fear that if Harper does get a majority government, with his fundamental Christian background, we will see a loss of freedom for women. Abortion to name one.

    Also, I think that Harper is a fundamentalist Christian not a conservative Christian. To me there is a difference. Fundamentalist in any religion, generally makes a theocracy state. ie Taliban, Iran.

    In Ontario, we did have a Catholic family court system that what recognized and the decisions upheld by civil law. However I believe that if the decision was not liked they could appeal to the civil courts. I was shocked! I never knew this until, lo and behold, the Muslim wanted their religious family laws according to the Koran recognized as well. Well, Muslim belief about women are different than the belief that we have in Western society whether its religious or not. And alot of people were afraid that these Muslim women would not benefit from our Westernized ideas of freedom for women due to social pressures within their community. In any event, the Priemer basicly said no to Muslim law and struck down the Catholic family law courts and stated one recognized law for the people of Ontario.

    It is so easy to lose our freedom that may not reflect the majority of the country to a few that rule. We in Western society take for granted the freedoms we do have even tho there is still a lack of gender equality. Why else do we have laws to protect women (and children) that don't pertain to men? But that is an other issue.

    In fact, in my area, there is a very minor party that is Christian based. No thanks.

    So, in general I don't usually care what church people attend but when it comes to politics and it's parties, a religious background and politics don't mix, especially for women.
    4w5

  3. #33
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by countrygirl View Post
    However, when one wants to live a religious life and live by its moral standards, in politics this makes it a theocracy state, not demoncracy.
    Are religious people responsible for the Canadian laws that violate free speech? Its the details of a person's beliefs, not the religous or secular nature of them, that should raise alarm bells.

  4. #34
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    Canadians Sigh!!!

  5. #35
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    (but to Harper's credit, he hasn't touched these...so far at least. Some conservatives in the country are very unhappy about that, though.)
    Actually, anti-same sex marriage was part of his election platform and he tried but was voted down in Parliament.

    Attempt.

    Voted down.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Homer View Post
    if the next government is a Harper majority Canadians may as well all move to Alberta.
    Quote Originally Posted by Not_Me View Post
    even in red neck Alberta
    :rolli:

    This kind of bullshit rhetoric is precisely why I don't even care to vote anymore.

    "Contempt of Parliament"? Don't care. If this was a majority government, Conservative, Liberal or otherwise, it wouldn't have mattered one bit. Every government we've ever had has operated the same way. The fact that this was a minority government is why the "contempt of Parliament" is even an issue.

    There isn't a single candidate in any party that really speaks for what I want out of my government. They're all in it for the power and the perks.

  7. #37
    Senior Member countrygirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    Are religious people responsible for the Canadian laws that violate free speech? Its the details of a person's beliefs, not the religous or secular nature of them, that should raise alarm bells.
    Can you give an example of how does Canadian laws violate free speech since I'm not aware of this.

    The details of a person's beliefs are conditioned by society. This normally entails the religious or secular nature of them. We, as an individual person, do not grow up in a vaccuum, we are conditioned by our society. Any given society will employ child-rearing practices that tend to produce the particular type of personality that is functional for adult life in that society.

    Quote Originally Posted by 93JC View Post
    There isn't a single candidate in any party that really speaks for what I want out of my government. They're all in it for the power and the perks.
    Interesting. What do you want from the government?
    4w5

  8. #38
    Resident Snot-Nose GZA's Avatar
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    It has always bothered me knowing Harper is against same sex marriage. What's his problem?

  9. #39
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by countrygirl View Post
    Can you give an example of how does Canadian laws violate free speech since I'm not aware of this.
    Here is a short article that refers to several examples of free speech violations in Canada in recent years. Other such articles are easy to find.

    http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/free-speech-in-canada/

  10. #40
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=countrygirl;1524117]The details of a person's beliefs are conditioned by society. This normally entails the religious or secular nature of them. We, as an individual person, do not grow up in a vaccuum, we are conditioned by our society. Any given society will employ child-rearing practices that tend to produce the particular type of personality that is functional for adult life in that society.QUOTE]

    And society in turn is shaped by the diverse beliefs of the populace,and the beliefs of contemprary Christians (fundamentalist or otherwise) are overwhelmingly not theocratic in nature. Comparing modern social conservatism to theocracy is like comparing Ralph Nadar to Stalin.

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