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  1. #101
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    Left and right wing policies are a world wide phenomena and do not change depending on the nation.
    Uh, yeah they do. These very terms can mean completely different things in different places. They ARE an invention, and that standard is not world wide. You're assuming that your left is another country's left. This is not always the case, because countries don't have a standard functioning "ocrary," whether that be democratic or whatever-cratic. Neo-liberalism, whateverism . . . They reorder and recontextualize what it is to be on a political spectrum.

    Most of us Canadians here were able to see that Nerd Girl had never been in Canada because the way in which she interpreted our political spectrum was not true to our country's politics. It's not a value-judgment but a truth-judgment: she's clearly an outsider in the way that I am living in the U.S.: I have markers that give away my ignorance because I'm not an insider.

    You're the one saying it's universal, and ironically, you're the ethnocentric while trying to include everyone in this discussion equally. It's a conclusion predicated on a false assumption that we're all equally able to discuss this subject matter. We're not. She hasn't done enough research to know why she's an outsider, but insiders can mark her as an outsider because she's missing cultural knowledge. Just like people can mark me as an outsider where I am.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  2. #102
    Senior Member countrygirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    Uh, yeah they do. These very terms can mean completely opposite things in different places. They ARE an invention, and that standard is not world wide. You're assuming that your left is another country's left. This is not always the case, because countries don't have a standard functioning "ocrary," whether that be democratic or whatever-cratic. Neo-liberalism, whateverism . . . They reorder and recontextualize what it is to be on a political spectrum.

    Most of us Canadians here were able to see that Nerd Girl had never been in Canada because the way in which she interpreted our political spectrum was not true to our country's politics. It's not a value-judgment but a truth-judgment: she's clearly an outsider in the way that I am living in the U.S.: I have markers that give away my ignorance because I'm not an insider.

    You're the one saying it's universal, and ironically, you're the ethnocentric while trying to include everyone in this discussion equally. It's a conclusion predicated on a false assumption that we're all equally able to discuss this subject matter. We're not. She hasn't done enough research to know why she's an outsider, but insiders can mark her as an outsider because she's missing cultural knowledge. Just like people can mark me as an outsider where I am.
    It's not only that Arclight, it's also the fact that each culture will define for themselves what values they cherish which will be reflected in its governing of its people.

    One of the platforms that Conservatives and Liberals are asking Canadians; which Canada do you want? A Liberal Canada or a Conservative Canada? Which imples, what values do you want reflected in the governing and shaping of policies that will affect your life and how you define yourself as a Canadian.

    And by the way, I do like it when Americans or other cultures participate since it show quite clearly the differences in our values that make up a country's mindset.
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  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not_Me View Post
    I lived in Alberta for many years. I understand and appreciate many of their values. However, ignoring the connotations, the redneck characterization accurately illustrates their far right standing on the Canadian political spectrum.
    It doesn't accurately illustrate anything, and the fact that you think it does is insulting. Are you even listening to what you're saying? You just called me a redneck. You don't know a fucking thing about me, and you just called me a redneck.

    *sigh*

  4. #104
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    Smile The Sovereign Parliament

    What it does demonstate is the power of Parliament.

    Parliament is the greatest power in the land, indeed it is a Sovereign Parliament.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    Uh, yeah they do. These very terms can mean completely different things in different places. They ARE an invention, and that standard is not world wide. You're assuming that your left is another country's left. This is not always the case, because countries don't have a standard functioning "ocrary," whether that be democratic or whatever-cratic. Neo-liberalism, whateverism . . . They reorder and recontextualize what it is to be on a political spectrum.

    Most of us Canadians here were able to see that Nerd Girl had never been in Canada because the way in which she interpreted our political spectrum was not true to our country's politics. It's not a value-judgment but a truth-judgment: she's clearly an outsider in the way that I am living in the U.S.: I have markers that give away my ignorance because I'm not an insider.

    You're the one saying it's universal, and ironically, you're the ethnocentric while trying to include everyone in this discussion equally. It's a conclusion predicated on a false assumption that we're all equally able to discuss this subject matter. We're not. She hasn't done enough research to know why she's an outsider, but insiders can mark her as an outsider because she's missing cultural knowledge. Just like people can mark me as an outsider where I am.
    Where a party stands on that spectrum might change from nation to nation but the Right is the right and the left is the left. We might be a little less extreme and more central. But a republican still has more in common with a conservative than they do a liberal.

    I'm not comfortable with calling anyone an outsider, and I see no reason why we can't include our Southern neighbors in our political discussions.

    We often complain how little Americans know about Canada , especially the south. And now we are telling someone they are unwelcome.
    Maybe we should educate her and help her learn instead of rejecting her because we don't agree with what she is saying.
    Marm is also American, however since she seems to be supporting the Liberals, no one is telling her she is not welcome or that she is not qualified to speak about our politics.

    Is it just me??

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by countrygirl View Post
    I see what you are saying. It's just that when Americans who have posted on this thread defining liberals and conservatives, it sounds backwards to how I interepret our parties. I'm not sure the Canadian Liberal party are right wing the way Americans define the right. I believe that they have socialist policies that makes them sit on the centre of the political spectrum. More to the left of that would be our Conservative Party and more left of that would be our New Democratic Party (NDP). And I assume the extreme left is a Communist Party which we have but not recognized as an offical party and therefore doesn't get on the voting ballot.

    Does this make sense?
    It does, but it's also a bit subjective. That's OK I am subjective too even when I try not be.

  7. #107
    Senior Member countrygirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    It does, but it's also a bit subjective. That's OK I am subjective too even when I try not be.
    I think I get your point. Right and Left do have a definition but no matter what a political party calls itself, it jumps on the political spectrum.

    If my understanding is correct, then whoever discusses politics, the standard definition needs to stand to define the spectrum. However, then a culture should define its own political parties on the spectrum simply because of the values it represents in that culture (and therefore subjective).
    4w5

  8. #108
    Senior Member countrygirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    I'm not comfortable with calling anyone an outsider, and I see no reason why we can't include our Southern neighbors in our political discussions.

    We often complain how little Americans know about Canada , especially the south. And now we are telling someone they are unwelcome.
    Maybe we should educate her and help her learn instead of rejecting her because we don't agree with what she is saying.
    Marm is also American, however since she seems to be supporting the Liberals, no one is telling her she is not welcome or that she is not qualified to speak about our politics.

    Is it just me??
    No I think you have a point. However, when presenting your information you need to keep in mind the cultural context of which you speak. Anybody, can have a opinion but usually it's within the context of that culture. So an American telling me, a Canadian, what my parties are on the political spectrum when they have no cultural context or understanding of Canadians reeks of such ignorance that it is best to be ignored. Especially when someone is rightous in thier viewpoint without understanding other cultures, there is no room for education.
    4w5

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by countrygirl View Post
    I am curious as to know what happened with Trudeau and the infamous middle finger gesture? What was the major political strife?
    In August of 1982 Trudeau was travelling through BC on a holiday. He was using two luxury rail coaches 'loaned' to him from the Governor General, connected to the back of a Via Rail train. While passing through Salmon Arm he was greeted by three protesters: Doug Hughes, his wife Barb, and his friend Dave Martinuk. All three were BC government workers on strike. They were protesting Trudeau's threats to reintroduce price and wage controls (as he had in the mid '70s, breaking an election promise from 1974 in the process), all while Trudeau vacationed in a plush rail car.

    He flipped the bird to the three of them in succession and the drew the shutters on the windows closed.

    It set off a furore. Trudeau seemed completely oblivious to the economic hardships being borne by the average Canadian as he travelled in the lap of luxury on the taxpayers' dime, and he disdainfully dismissed them with the most profane hand gesture possible.

    By the time he reached Rogers Pass people were pelting the train with tomatoes as it passed. In Banff, Canmore and Calgary people threw eggs. In Sudbury and Orillia (this wasn't just a Western Canadian thing!) people threw rocks.

    It was perfectly emblematic of how little Trudeau cared. Liberal enclaves in Ontario remember Trudeau fondly; everywhere else in this country he is one of the most hated men.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by countrygirl View Post
    Out here in the east, Alberta is known for its different political stance on the political spectrum. Almost American in outlook.
    I don't consider that to be bad. I often think Canadians often try to hard to differentiate themselves from the Americans.
    What was the major political strife?
    The National Energy Program nearly destroyed the Alberta economy during the 80s. It essentially took oil revenue from Alberta and handed it over to Ontario and Quebec, where most of the voters are. It created much of the resentment in that region.

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