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  1. #31
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Of course, but Lark does not agree with this. He's very pro-drug war.
    Well, like I say, that victimless crime seems to have a lot of unpleasant consequences, in this country at least but could be different in your part of the world, it'd be a first in my experience if crack houses, meth labs and pushers made property prices sky rocket.

  2. #32
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YourLocalJesus View Post
    The problem isn't the prison system, the problem is much larger than that. The big problem is society, and it has its root in cultural decadence and that there is too much people.
    Another big fat issue is the failing attempts at multiculturalism. Also, look at where crime is most common. It's in the cities. Humans aren't supposed to live like that.

    Earth needs less people. Much, much less people. No prisons at all, preferably. Rapists should be buried alive at crossroads, etc. That's justice.
    Yeah, quote for truth there.

  3. #33
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    I feel sorry for you guys who think that drug abuse makes life better.

  4. #34
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    Actually, the best prisons in the world are in Northern Europe because they rehabilitate people and treat them like human beings, and therefore have actually experienced a decrease in crime and repeat offenders.

    I believe Norway is the best of all, and the Netherlands have seen a decline in criminals so much that they're actually closing some of their prisons.

    Americans are so fucking sociologically and culturally stupid. I wonder why that is.

  5. #35
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    Having spent a night in a jail myself more than once, and knowing several people who have actually been to prison, I feel that I might be able to at least give a semi-accurate assessment of what I've seen (oh yes... and taking some criminal justice classes! )

    Criminals ARE sorted by the severity of thier crimes... felons are sent to the pen and misdemeanors (which have much shorter sentences) serve thier time in the county jail... even in the county jail prisoners are often sorted into different cell blocks by the severity or level of violence for crimes... minor assult, vandalism and things of that sort are kept seperate from DUIs and probation violations and such.

    If you are in jail your access to a telephone is limited, you spend a lot more time on lock down (especially if you're in a holding cell and are ALWAYS locked in!), there is no access to the outdoors at all, people do not have jobs, classes (except for the occasional classes for AA or NA if you're in for a while) and the behavior of other inmates can be erratic since some may still be drunk or under the influence of drugs. In prison you can not only call people, but also watch television, you have access to the outdoors in the set aside time period, people have jobs and classes and such and the extra violent offenders are seperated off into supermax facilities.

    Keeping people in cells alone would be unbearably boring for non-violent offenders, and lack of access to the outdoors could cause all kinds of mental health issues (I KNOW that not getting to go outside... or even long stretches of cloudy weather, really get to me )... some people ARE extroverts after all Giving them something to do would decrease the chances of people having enough spare time in which to do something bad... perhaps have the prisoners produce a product or something of the sort?

    If you want to build new jails and prisons to fit your recommendations though, where are you going to find the funding? And the staff?
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  6. #36
    Cheeseburgers freeeekyyy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    Giving them something to do would decrease the chances of people having enough spare time in which to do something bad... perhaps have the prisoners produce a product or something of the sort?
    Depends on the state. Here in Oregon, it's required that inmates be provided the opportunity to work. They produce clothing for sale to the public, along with their own prison clothing, machinery, road signs and serveral other items. So there are some attempts at rehabilitation. More could certainly be done, but it's not like it's totally new territory. I know there are similar laws in other states, not sure exactly which ones though.
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  7. #37
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    If you want to build new jails and prisons to fit your recommendations though, where are you going to find the funding? And the staff?
    You make a hell of a lot of good points and I'm glad to see it. Too many threads on prison and prison populations are driven by poor sociology and poorer polemic.

    I bolded that last bit because prison's not just a place to warehouse the ner-do-wells its other peoples workplace, creating a pressure cooker environment for already wicked sorts to explode in is just about the worst gift you could provide anyone in that line of work. Its not within the gift of prisons to provide those workers with model citizens to handle but they dont need to add to the trouble.

    Plus, its emotionally taxing dealing with the kinds of people who cant live any place besides a prison, even if its people without a history of violence who're just exhibiting anti-social, perverse or habituated behaviours, but asking prison officers to dispense rough justice on anyone is asking them to accept the kinds of personally shaping, possibly distorting, of doing so. That's a big consequence.

    Its voguishly anti-authoritarian not to give a shit about those agents of "tha man" but they're hard working people some of them, seeking to earn a living and possibly aiming to do some good while they are at it, sometimes its the only source of available employment too. It doesnt really come with the warning "If you are not already someone who likes rules, power and controlling others you could be by the end of your first month, warn your wife/husband, kids/dependents, dog/cat/pet, neighbours etc. etc."

  8. #38
    Honor Thy Inferior Such Irony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Actually, the best prisons in the world are in Northern Europe because they rehabilitate people and treat them like human beings, and therefore have actually experienced a decrease in crime and repeat offenders.

    I believe Norway is the best of all, and the Netherlands have seen a decline in criminals so much that they're actually closing some of their prisons.

    Americans are so fucking sociologically and culturally stupid. I wonder why that is.

    I'd like to see something more similar to Norway's system implemented in the US and other countries. I do fundamentally agree with the premise that treating prisoners like human beings and preserving their dignity has the best chance of success in integrating them back into society. I think this would work great for the less violent criminals but what about the most violent ones? I'm not sure I'd want them just roaming free in open areas where they could be of harm to others unless there was strong evidence suggesting that their act of violence was strictly a thing of the past.
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