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  1. #51
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    Still, it seems a bit sadistic to make the offender suffer because the affected victims demand suffering. The idea is to rehabilitate, not inflict more damage on the citizenry (which includes both victims and perpetrators).
    The idea is justice (in the case of sentencing) and protecting the law-abiding populace (both during and after sentencing) more than rehabilitation; if someone has truly rehabilitated, they will agree with the sufferring inflicted upon them if its within the parameters of what could be considered 'justice' for their crime relative to other crimes. That said, vehicular manslaughter through DUI is really not something that an employer needs to know, and instituting post-sentence restrictions on the basis of 'justice' is misguided-any justice concerns should be incorporated into the sentencing itself, with post-sentence restrictions instituted (not retroactively) for the purposes of protecting the innocent and weighed against the forseeable consequences of limiting an ex-convict's opportunities.

  2. #52
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Takeru View Post
    Our prison system is overcrowded, that is what. Instead of finding a solution, we just stick every-single-"criminal" whether it be theft or murder into this building and say "stay there with these other people."
    So crime is very popular in your state, I'm sorry to hear that, as a law abiding citizen I'm sure its a hard thing to deal with.

    Hell, my state pays more to upheld each prisoner than they are willing to fund each student for the public colleges. If they were willing to grant that 50k to students like they use on those prisoners, most of us students wouldn't need to scramble for money.
    I was unaware of the link between a college education and criminality.

    Rehabilitation takes time, sometimes even a lifetime. I am sure most people won't magically forgive the offender for what has transpired. Sometimes the offender don't even know who their victims are and would care less about the victims.
    I sometimes think that rehabilitation is a sort of vanity, its greatest proponents believe that the system should dispense the sort of service that they or their family would expect if mayhap they were prosecuted, without ever really thinking how likely that is and how generally far removed most people are psychologically or behaviourially from criminals, particularly persistent offenders. In truth the more hardened variety will laugh at any kindness done to or for them and perceive it a despicable weakness.

    Do I think there should be a system to get the victims and offender (note the order I placed it in) back into some kind of shape? Yes. Do I think the offender should be let off that easily? No.
    Good to hear.

  3. #53
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freeeekyyy View Post
    This comes from people having belief in their own superiority. "I'd never do x. People who do x are sick, even though I've done y and z, that's not as bad because it isn't x." "I may be bad, but look at those other people." If the concern is that when a person's done their time, they still won't have changed, then perhaps they need to do more time. They do not need to be treated like they're still criminals when they've paid their debts.
    I dont think its to do with feelings of superiority, although its often described that way by a certain sort of, generally safe, secure and far removed from it all, person with sympathies for one time criminals who've served their time.

    I'd say its understandable apprehension and wariness, especially in societies were capricious, corrupt or discriminatory authority has been majorly curtailed, I can understand historic valourisation of folk hero ex-cons, like in the relentlessly pursued fugutive TV series or Les Miserable but how much does that hold true in the modern world and how much does, instead, the Cape Fear scenario hold true instead?

    Thuggish elements have the lawabidding, peaceable and respectful on the ropes.

  4. #54
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    The idea is justice (in the case of sentencing) and protecting the law-abiding populace (both during and after sentencing) more than rehabilitation; if someone has truly rehabilitated, they will agree with the sufferring inflicted upon them if its within the parameters of what could be considered 'justice' for their crime relative to other crimes. That said, vehicular manslaughter through DUI is really not something that an employer needs to know, and instituting post-sentence restrictions on the basis of 'justice' is misguided-any justice concerns should be incorporated into the sentencing itself, with post-sentence restrictions instituted (not retroactively) for the purposes of protecting the innocent and weighed against the forseeable consequences of limiting an ex-convict's opportunities.
    To be honest I think the western justice system needs to take account again of the idea of satisfaction once more, either for victims or their kin, I mean what is wrong with reoffending per se?

    Its pretty much that it adds insult to injury for those who have already suffered the crime and adds to their numbers, that's really and truly what's at stake because materially crime doesnt really threaten the economy or social structure most of the time, sometimes it benefits both and when it does is when you find a movement afoot to recategorise whatever behaviour it is in question as decriminalised.

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