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  1. #81
    Superwoman Red Herring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    We primarily get gas from Russia and I think that is the interims plan. People definitly do not want here to go back to a higher oil usage and the government will also not to. That would be kinda dumb, as you explained
    This. Athenian, I am sorry if I caused the impression that the idea was to return to oil. That was never the plan. As a truth loving pedant I mentioned that the plan would be to use renwables and gas (and a very small part of oil on top), just for the sake of completeness. It is a minor share compared to the gas and the role renewables will play.
    The good life is one inspired by love and guided by knowledge. Neither love without knowledge, nor knowledge without love can produce a good life. - Bertrand Russell
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  2. #82
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    I still have visions of huge cow fart catching machines when they speak of natural gas How about a fart-catching machine the size of new york. Would be white beans for everyone for a whole year only on the menu
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  3. #83
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    There might be a minor increase in oil for a few years, but that is just one small sideeffect. The focus is on massive expansion of renewables and mostly gas as a gap filler. Strange you should focus on that one sidenote and not on the main point of the entire article. Or maybe there is some miscommunication here.

    Germany and Central Europe in general is not so much moving away from or back to fossils as it is rapidly moing towards renewables. Some say that will be for us in the 21st century what cars were in the 20th century.
    I guess the idea that you could be rapidly moving towards renewables is kind of hard for me to imagine, because renewable energy is only a very small percentage of our energy production. We tend to kind of lag behind Europe in things like that. Here, the thinking is still very much centered on fossil and nuclear, with renewable only seriously considered as an auxiliary to reduce demand on the major plants. Some people want renewable (thankfully including our president), but it's not the majority.

    Well, if you're seriously moving towards renewable THAT quickly, then maybe it's not a big deal.

  4. #84
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    Lateralus, you are comparing apples and pears and continue the personal attacks instead of sticking to the issue.
    Another disingenuous argument and more complaints about personal attacks. My last post was the first where I actually indulged. I figured if I'm going to be accused of personally attacking someone in every post simply for disagreeing, I might as well do it. These last three sentences will surely be interpreted as yet another personal attack by you. It must be difficult going through life confusing disagreement with insult.

    For the record, I was against nuclear energy years before Fukushima, all my life actually.
    This does not surprise me. What has happened in Japan has given you a platform for your message.

    I am familiar with most of the arguments of your side. And I agree that we need a rational cost benefit analysis. Where we differ is in the assessment of the risks and promises of both technologies and in our confidence in their potential for improvement. I consider it it more likely to get a few bugs out of the current wind/water/solar generators than to revolutionize nuclear fission in the next decade or two.
    A few bugs? Wind is intermittent and only works where it's windy. Solar is intermittent and only works where it's sunny. Hydroelectric power is limited to where we have flowing water. Even when these technologies are fully developed, unless you plan to wage wars to force the rest of the world to live by your standards, these sources will never be enough. To view these sources as the solution to the world's energy problems is unrealistic. I'm not against renewable energy sources. In fact, I'm very much in favor of them. They have their place, but we must have a reliable, non-intermittent energy source.

    The potential of nuclear power is much greater. If we continue on this course, trying to completely eliminate nuclear power, we are headed for war or more coal plants, and possibly both.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  5. #85
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Let's just pretend he's invisible then he cant twist our words around
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  6. #86
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    I guess the idea that you could be rapidly moving towards renewables is kind of hard for me to imagine, because renewable energy is only a very small percentage of our energy production. We tend to kind of lag behind Europe in things like that. Here, the thinking is still very much centered on fossil and nuclear, with renewable only seriously considered as an auxiliary to reduce demand on the major plants. Some people want renewable (thankfully including our president), but it's not the majority.

    Well, if you're seriously moving towards renewable THAT quickly, then maybe it's not a big deal.
    I hope you'll have Obama as long as possible, he's the best that could have happened to your country. That's how I feel about him.

    Dont underestimate your people, they have built some of those solarthermic things aswell in the desert. I saw it at Shawn Riley on TV that guy form worlds toughest jobs. Dunno if you know that show. America is no. 1 in the world regarding geothermics aswell. They learnt a lot on island.
    There's definitly something brewing and I dont think that the intrest in renewables will stay a blindspot in America for too long.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  7. #87
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    A few bugs? Wind is intermittent and only works where it's windy. Solar is intermittent and only works where it's sunny. Hydroelectric power is limited to where we have flowing water. Even when these technologies are fully developed, unless you plan to wage wars to force the rest of the world to live by your standards, these sources will never be enough. To view these sources as the solution to the world's energy problems is unrealistic. I'm not against renewable energy sources. In fact, I'm very much in favor of them. They have their place, but we must have a reliable, non-intermittent energy source.

    The potential of nuclear power is much greater. If we continue on this course, trying to completely eliminate nuclear power, we are headed for war or more coal plants, and possibly both.
    I think they're actually putting their faith in enhanced renewable energies, not the typical solar and wind that you're thinking of. Basically, a future technology.


    KITEGEN


    Microwave

    For example, and they are considering completely new ones as well that I haven't heard of.

    You may be correct if you assume that we're talking about present solar and wind solutions, however.

  8. #88
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    Here are some statistics on "irrational fears of radiation" haha

    Just go on this site, the sopurce site and watch how many sentences about the topic there are. It is totally irrational to fear radiation -.- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioactive_waste
    This refutes nothing. What matters is the effect radiation has on health. The media gives the general public the impression that ALL radiation is bad. This is absurd considering that fact that we're all exposed to varying levels of radiation right now. There is no way to escape radiation completely because the entire universe is full of it. Our bodies have evolved ways to handle small doses of radiation. What we need is an informed public that weighs the negative effects of radiation properly, not one that panics at the mention of the word.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  9. #89
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Dunno what you need to weigh things against. Nuclear power produces wastes that lasts for a million years and gives off over 10,000 micro Sievert gamma and alpha radiation (alpha when its plutonium). That's death when you look at it, your inner organs fail first and then your skin begins to boil, its basically like you would cook people in hot water
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  10. #90
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Tho I have to correct myself alpha kills in an instant, gamma only damages your dna.

    google chernobyl for reference, I really dont want to play that card and go down on such a low level of discussion
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

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