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  1. #121
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    Dunno what you need to weigh things against. Nuclear power produces wastes that lasts for a million years and gives off over 10,000 micro Sievert gamma and alpha radiation (alpha when its plutonium).
    Can you confirm or deny the things I have heard about the nuclear waste situation in France? If its true, I don't see nuclear waste as that huge of a problem, at least not the amount that would be produced over the next several decades.

  2. #122
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    So if you felt like you had a safe place to dump the stuff, you'd suddenly be okay with nuclear power?
    There is no safe place. Too many unpredictable events. As I said before: France dumps most of its waste in a salt mine - usually the last place where you can find water. Yet, now water is leaking over waste and going further down god-knows-where. Who knows what will happen if they're left there for 100 more years.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  3. #123
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    KITEGEN is a nice idea, but it's going to have issues with air traffic. I'd like to see how that is going to be resolved. We also have to consider the long-term consequences of removing kinetic energy from the atmosphere on the massive scale.
    I understand the issue with air traffic (yet if we don't have fuel for planes anymore, that might be less of an issue - or if fuel becomes very expensive thus flights necessarily less frequent), but c'mon, are you seriously considering the issue of removing kinetic energy from the atmosphere? A little bit less wind? At the very worst, it could create a slight rain shadow on its windward side, perhaps.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  4. #124
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    I understand the issue with air traffic (yet if we don't have fuel for planes anymore, that might be less of an issue - or if fuel becomes very expensive thus flights necessarily less frequent), but c'mon, are you seriously considering the issue of removing kinetic energy from the atmosphere? A little bit less wind? At the very worst, it could create a slight rain shadow on its windward side, perhaps.
    I don't think it's possible to predict precisely what would happen if humans were removing a couple gigawatts of kinetic energy from the atmosphere through the use of wind turbines. It might not have much of an impact, but I don't think that's something we should just ignore.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  5. #125
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I don't think it's possible to predict precisely what would happen if humans were removing a couple gigawatts of kinetic energy from the atmosphere through the use of wind turbines. It might not have much of an impact, but I don't think that's something we should just ignore.
    Well, if you go by that logic, we should stop burning fossil fuels, using nuclear energy, or generating any power at all, because all of it could have a non-negligible impact.

  6. #126
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Well, if you go by that logic, we should stop burning fossil fuels, using nuclear energy, or generating any power at all, because all of it could have a non-negligible impact.
    Some people want us to go that direction. I would just like to quantify the impact so we can properly weigh the pros and cons of various energy sources.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  7. #127
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    It's interesting that in the energy discussion debate(in general), I haven't seen any propose to change a countries culture instead to rely less on consumption of energy.

  8. #128
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tantive View Post
    It's interesting that in the energy discussion debate(in general), I haven't seen any propose to change a countries culture instead to rely less on consumption of energy.
    I think that's because that's what everyone wants to avoid if possible. I mean, let's face it... life is going to be a lot less cozy without being able to constantly run our AC and heat, use our computers and televisions all the time, have our homes as lit up as we like, cook with electricity, etc...

    Yeah, it's going to suck, but it will be necessary eventually. The Internet will probably survive in some form, but it will rely on low-powered devices like ultra-thin laptops and mobile phones. Up to now, progress has been progress towards more power and functionality. I think that from here, it will start to be progress towards using less energy and retaining functionality.

    I can see a world coming where we no longer have a separate computer, television, music player, and phone... but have one portable device that takes care of all these functions. Devices like the iPad are close already. The thing I will dislike most about that world, is the lack of a keyboard... I'm terribly slow/clumsy at handwriting, and I'm uncomfortable with speech in many cases.

  9. #129
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tantive View Post
    It's interesting that in the energy discussion debate(in general), I haven't seen any propose to change a countries culture instead to rely less on consumption of energy.
    Several posters have already done that (I don't agree with the sentiment, personally).

  10. #130
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tantive View Post
    It's interesting that in the energy discussion debate(in general), I haven't seen any propose to change a countries culture instead to rely less on consumption of energy.
    You can't do that significantly without a large amount of people becoming jobless and eventually homeless and likely starving, so that's a solution of last resort.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

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