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  1. #11
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    Originally posted by durentu
    I think in the US, it has to be swept under the rug.

    slavery is seen as something ancient, like it happened a long time ago and we are so awesome now, because we have moved passed that. Slavery is reserved to those other countries.

    Politically speaking, to speak about modern slavery in the US would not get votes. The US is awesome, slavery is not awesome. To admit/prove that slavery exists in the US would mean that the US is not awesome and is no better than those other third world, or backward countries. In my view, it's political suicide.
    This is another reason why I hate both politicians and the average citizen. The politicians are cowards who care more about thier worthless and wretched images, and the average citizens are stupid sheeple masses who want to turn a blind eye on the troubles of the world and live in entertainment lala land. Until both groups of people change I'm certain change nor just will ever be possible in our world.

    Also, the law definition of employee and slave are very very similar.
    Well employment could technically be seen as indirect slavery, especially when you don't have the option to get another job and your current one works you like hell with crappy pay. Although this doesn't universally apply to all employment postions in the working world.

    Originally posted by The Machine Stops
    Very true. I'm somewhat aware of the sex work being done here, and slavery is a big problem. Fighting it is an uphill battle. The boarders to eastern europe are open, girls constantly, gleefully, accepting the chance to work in Germany cross it. They make 2 dollars a day at home, and here they have the chance to make 20 an hour... only to find themselves ... in situations less than ideal once they arrive.

    The whole thing is very organized. They move the women from one safe house to the next, from one corner to another, fake papers to get them into legal brothels, and calculate in that they will be found out, and sent back home eventually. They are beaten, threatened, forced into drug addiction, their family back home, if she says a word, they will suffer, too... and so those girls remain imprisoned in fear even when walking down the streets, freely, selling their bodies for 20 Euros a pop, cheap flesh at dumping prices, the delusional hope that if she earns enough money, maybe she can escape the nightmare.

    A lot of work is going into fighting this, a lot of people are charged, and prosecuted, a lot of people are reunited with their families, but despite that, the problem keeps getting worse. Over 1000 convictions two years ago, and following that, a rise of suspected criminal activity by over 30 percent, the year after that.
    So you're telling me even in countries were prostitution is legal, the possibility of sex slavery can still easily occur? If that is the case then the idea of just legalizing prostition among others things isn't a valid option. Perhaps if stronger punishments were imposed on those who enslave others? No, we need more than that, what we need is greater attention to the problem and groups of people hellbent on fixing it.

    Someone has to come up with a new approach to go about this.
    True that.

  2. #12
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Architectonic View Post
    Why isn't this issue at the forefront of discussion in the western media?
    because there is nothing you can do about it, so it doesent have enough media value to be in forefront of media.

    i dunno how much americans know about these issues, but i dont think this issue is a surprise to most finnish people, because this sort of things are discussed to some extend in finnish media.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
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  3. #13
    Member The Machine Stops's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savage Idealist View Post
    So you're telling me even in countries were prostitution is legal, the possibility of sex slavery can still easily occur? If that is the case then the idea of just legalizing prostition among others things isn't a valid option. Perhaps if stronger punishments were imposed on those who enslave others? No, we need more than that, what we need is greater attention to the problem and groups of people hellbent on fixing it.
    I see it as an economic problem. Slaves are basically free labor. If you have free labor you can always compete on any market with prices nobody else can match. There is a fairly large range depending on services offered, but I would say that the median hourly income of a legal prostitute is around 250 Euros. 250 vs 20. Safe sex vs unsafe. Limits vs none. Who could compete with that?

    Education has the potential to be a silver bullet. If the source countries would educate their young women on the dangers of putting their lives into the hands of strangers offering riches, maybe the fresh meat market would dry up over time. Make it culturally intrinsic knowledge. Everyone knows it, it cannot be questioned. Idealistic, unrealistic, but stranger things have happened

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    I think people who fear groups of people who have a right to actively choose their own leaders have got some SERIOUS issues.
    I do have some SERIOUS issues for thinking forceful coercion and mandatory violence to belong in a pragmatic society is wrong. But I do think there are better solutions than the knee-jerk suggestion of cutting ties to everything to live in the woods to support my ethical convictions.

  5. #15
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    It's interesting that you say "pragmatic" because I don't view your ethical convictions as being at all pragmatic, but idealistic.

    There is real suffering going on in the world, you know. Real slavery. For people to compare the existence of government in Western 1st world countries to true slavery makes me want to puke. Social Democracies have the most free societies in the world.

    It's idealistic to say that if there were no laws or government everyone would just play nice. It's a bunch of crap, actually. Humanity has frequently proven otherwise, and anarcho-capitalism won't work in reality for the exact same reasons communism on a wide state scale doesn't work in reality.

    I'm not saying you're an anarcho-capitalist, you might be a left anarchist, and I strongly sympathize with liberatarian socialism...but I'm not so sure it's practical.

    After I attended college and learned more about the world, I realized that things like war are necessary evils. If someone ethical is not in power, someone immoral will rise up to take power. That's why government exists...because, essentially, people without morals or ethics will take up abuse of power if somebody doesn't stop them.

    I'd like for something a bit closer to libertarian socialism to exist, but like I said, I think it's an ideal, not a pragmatic solution to anything.

    I still think my suggestion of living out in the woods is very workable. You could go live on a commune right now if you wanted.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Old topic, slavery's a die hard habit among the criminal fraternity but its not an institution like it once was, neither is it likely to make a comeback, although if the stoner capitalists make enough headway politically who knows? I mean people shouldnt have any right to benefits but they should be able to volunteer to be bought and sold shouldnt they? Its all business, God Save The Markets!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Old topic, slavery's a die hard habit among the criminal fraternity but its not an institution like it once was, neither is it likely to make a comeback, although if the stoner capitalists make enough headway politically who knows? I mean people shouldnt have any right to benefits but they should be able to volunteer to be bought and sold shouldnt they? Its all business, God Save The Markets!
    For once I thoroughly agree with you, Lark.

    Someone should also tell these asshats that even old money aristocracy fed, clothed, and housed their servants, and felt a social duty to the poor, and to the tenant farmers who lived in surrounding villages.

    I'm thoroughly annoyed by people who suggest forms of societal structure which go backward rather than forward, and which entirely go against the obvious realities of human nature.

  8. #18
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    Attention: anyone who is sitting on their ass on this internet forum talking about how the "sheeple" need to wake up and take action...
    Get off the internet and go do something! YOU ARE THE SHEEPLE. I AM THE SHEEPLE. Write a frikkin letter to your senator at least, before you start talking like you're better than the masses.

    OP: On the topic of modern slavery though, it is totally something I haven't ever seriously thought about, but today I'm gonna learn something. Thanks.
    "There's no need to be embarrassed about it, Mr. Spock. It happens to the birds and the bees!"

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    because there is nothing you can do about it, so it doesent have enough media value to be in forefront of media.
    Is this really the way it is?

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