User Tag List

First 61415161718 Last

Results 151 to 160 of 204

  1. #151
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    enfp
    Enneagram
    6w7 sp/sx
    Socionics
    IEE
    Posts
    6,748

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    I wouldn't be so sure. A lot of them started out with very little. They weren't born rich. They're just at the end of their working careers.
    Well I don't know about that. I have trouble believing that a millionaire wouldn't feel well off after having climbed from bottom (or middle) to top, and still wouldn't have the perspective to think about how bad it could be and all the strife that they've seen on their journey to the top. That would just be extremely deluded and forgetful. I understand with having to pay more taxes, they are going to lose some things that they enjoy and have become accustomed to, (since they probably spend up to their means), but to say that "I'm not well off" at that point seems like it would have to come from someone who has always been rich.

    I guess the other view though, is that you work for years and years non stop to become a millionaire and then you're just invested in all these risky stocks and having to pay more taxes. That can't be too comforting either...
    06/13 10:51:03 five sounds: you!!!
    06/13 10:51:08 shortnsweet: no you!!
    06/13 10:51:12 shortnsweet: go do your things and my things too!
    06/13 10:51:23 five sounds: oh hell naw
    06/13 10:51:55 shortnsweet: !!!!
    06/13 10:51:57 shortnsweet: (cries)
    06/13 10:52:19 RiftsWRX: You two are like furbies stuck in a shoe box

    My Nohari
    My Johari
    by sns.

  2. #152
    Tempbanned
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Enneagram
    8w9
    Posts
    14,031

    Default

    From the New York Times

    We Feel Rich Enough
    http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate...el-rich-enough

    Just one percent of Americans mention inequality when asked what is the most important problem facing the country. Why? Partly because the concentration of wealth is strikingly low by historical standards and the gap between rich and poor has not increased as much as many pundits believe. Another factor may be the relative affluence that the typical American enjoys today.

    The nation is looking for the same thing it has for decades – not a leveling of income differences, but a fair chance for everyone to achieve the American Dream.

    A prominent public opinion analyst has observed that voters' economic concerns "have shifted from those of getting to those of keeping." Those words were written by Samuel Lubell in 1952. Between that year and 1979, the income of the median family doubled, and while progress has slowed, it has still grown respectably since then.

    Despite the sluggish recovery, a Pew Research Center survey conducted last year found that three in four Americans who had reached midlife either said they were rich enough to lead the kind of life they wanted or believed they would be in the future. Pew's Economic Mobility Project, using a national survey that tracks multiple generations, has shown that four in five Americans have exceeded the income their parents had at the same age.

    The median American is richer than about 95 percent of people worldwide, a fact that may explain why the gap separating them from the richest Americans is so low on the list of most peoples' concerns. Instead, Americans want to expand opportunities for upward mobility for the nation's poorest.

    The Economic Mobility Project recently asked people what was more important, reducing inequality or ensuring that everyone has a fair chance at improving their economic standing. More than 60 percent "strongly" felt opportunity was more important, while just 16 percent felt strongly about reducing inequality.

    In the same survey, 17 percent said it was a "major problem" that people born to rich parents tend to remain at the top as adults (we gave them the actual figure). In contrast, more than half said it was a major problem that 42 percent of those starting at the bottom will remain there. The nation is looking for the same thing it has for decades – not a leveling of income differences, but a fair chance for everyone to achieve the American Dream.
    Maybe the level of frustration present in this thread is more reflective of how tough it is for young people in the present economy, and more specifically how much less young people earn than their elders, than it is of any vast injustice being committed.

  3. #153
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Socionics
    ENTj
    Posts
    5,908

    Default

    Highlander is correct. Any family where both partners have a decent job, save a good percentage (15-20) of their income and invest yearly in safe, long-term products (which don't really exist anymore, but did exist 30-40 years ago) will easily become a millionaire by the time both partners are 50.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  4. #154
    RDF
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Highlander is correct. Any family where both partners have a decent job, save a good percentage (15-20) of their income and invest yearly in safe, long-term products (which don't really exist anymore, but did exist 30-40 years ago) will easily become a millionaire by the time both partners are 50.
    I sense some tongue-in-cheek in your message: "...safe, long-term products (which don't really exist anymore, but did exist 30-40 years ago)..."

    The Fidelity article isn't about how to make your first million; it's about millionaires approaching retirement. But we can talk about investments in the previous century vs. investments today.

    Up until the late 90s, the long-term returns on stocks averaged 10% and inflation averaged 7-8%. By comparison, since the year 2000 the best returns you could get (without taking on excessive risk) was 4% and inflation averaged 1-2%.

    These numbers are all very rough, of course. Inflation can be measured a number of different ways. But the rough rule of thumb is that returns on standard investments (treasury bonds and stock indexes like the Dow or the S&P) will generally float 2-3 percentage points above the inflation rate.

    So that means that your post-inflation ("real") rate of return is roughly the same at all times. Still, there's a big difference between investing at 10% and investing at 3-4%:

    Basically, when stocks gave you 10% returns and inflation averaged 7-8%, it was easy to make a million dollars. But once you retired, inflation quickly started chewing away at your principal and made it fairly worthless. If you didn't have a COLA on your investment (pension, annuity, whatever), you were screwed. You either had to make lots of millions to account for inflation, or toward the end of your "golden years" you could count on eating dog and cat food a couple times a week to save money.

    OTOH, now that investments give you 3-4% returns and inflation averages 1-2%, it's quite difficult to make a million dollars; but once you retire your principal is going to be much safer. Inflation will be so low that your principal will likely remain whole throughout your entire "golden years."

    And really, that's the entire story. If we remain in a similar slow-growth environment for the foreseeable future, then the tough part will be to earn that first or second million so that you can generate a decent income in retirement. But once you have the money, it will be much safer than it would have been in the past.

    Once you retire, if we continue to see a slow-growth environment with a 3.5% return on Treasury bonds, then a million bucks of principal will generate $35,000 of income. $2,000,000 of principal will generate $70,000 of income. Your living expenses will be lower (mortgage eventually paid off), and retirement income is often taxed at lower rates. At lot of folks will be comfortable if they have $70,000 in income; some will be quite happy with a steady $35,000 in income. So we're talking about generating $1-2 million in principal during your earning years. That's not going to be easy at 3-4% returns. On the positive side, once you have that principal in the bank, inflation won't harm it much; inflation is practically near 0% for retirement purposes.

    So sit down with a "compound interest calculator" (you'll find them on the Internet), figure out how many working years you have in front of you still, and then figure out how much you need to save annually at 3.5% interest with interest compounded monthly. If the number seems high and you're still young, don't worry: You're highest-wage years are still to come. You save smaller amounts when you're young, and larger amounts as you get older and the kids leave the nest.

    Meantime, try to save the amount that the calculator indicated. And don't just put the money in a savings account--savings accounts usually offer interest rates that only match the inflation rate. You need to get those 2-3 points above the inflation rate, which means mutual funds that invest in stocks and bonds.

    Another option: Work for a company that offers an old-style pension. Stop by human resources and have someone give you some numbers as to how long you'll need to work to earn a pension of $50,000 a year (for example). And ask if it has a COLA attached, just in case inflation suddenly takes off again.

  5. #155
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    2,739

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    safe, long-term products (which don't really exist anymore, but did exist 30-40 years ago)
    What are you referring to?

  6. #156
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    ESTJ
    Enneagram
    9 so/sx
    Posts
    21,661

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    I wouldn't be so sure. A lot of them started out with very little. They weren't born rich. They're just at the end of their working careers.
    Its just my suspiscion, in the UK there's a very much a let them eat cake mindset among the rich and privileged, particularly the conservative voters.

  7. #157
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    6w5 sx/sp
    Socionics
    ILI Ni
    Posts
    17,904

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FineLine View Post

    OTOH, now that investments give you 3-4% returns and inflation averages 1-2%, it's quite difficult to make a million dollars; but once you retire your principal is going to be much safer. Inflation will be so low that your principal will likely remain whole throughout your entire "golden years."

    And really, that's the entire story. If we remain in a similar slow-growth environment for the foreseeable future, then the tough part will be to earn that first or second million so that you can generate a decent income in retirement. But once you have the money, it will be much safer than it would have been in the past.
    That's a really interesting perspective.

    Still, the effect of compounding of interest over time is pretty amazing. What you save in your 20s and early 30s has a huge impact on what you end up having 30 or 40 years later even if your compensation is a relatively small number compared to what you make later. I was astonished when I ran the numbers.

    Please provide feedback on my Nohari and Johari Window by clicking here: Nohari/Johari

    Tri-type 639

  8. #158
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    MBTI
    GONE
    Posts
    9,051

    Default

    I think the OP article illustrates the principle of "the more you know, the more you you know that you don't know"...? It's like people on TypeC who have posted they have IQ's in the low 140's and it kills them because they want to break 150 or 160. The more money you have, the more money you (think) you need? The more money you have, the more money you stand to lose which could make you insecure. Every time you surpass a certain bracket, you start looking at the next bracket, not in the comfortable zone that you are in or all the steps between you and the next plateau. If that makes sense. You don't compare yourself to the Jones', you compare yourself to the Jones' boss. I knew of someone who was pulling in half a million dollars a year but he was dissatisfied because in his profession, he was not in the major leagues.

    I was actually thinking about this today, because 'wealth' is so relative and there's a big difference between being 'rich' and living wealthy, basically meaning you have low to no debt and always have enough to cover your bills, disposable income for fun, and enough to cover emergencies. Also, being "worth" a certain amount doesn't mean that you have it in cash money, especially in America which is credit top heavy. With the real estate market tanking, it's much easier today than it was some years ago to be a multi-millionaire on paper because you own property but be drowning in debt and barely breaking even.

    So, I'm not that surprised that people with a lot want even more. $7.5 million is not a lot in the bloated big cars ,big boats, big houses 'bling' appearance focused culture of today. Pro athletes (I'm talking NBA, NFL, not soccer or bowling :P) make more than that in 1 year. If you want to live the glamorous lifestyles you see on some reality TV shows, you need way more than $7.5 million in assets, you need triple, quadruple that. Scratch that, a lot of those shows are fake and everything is staged and comped.
    “If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.” ― Oscar Wilde

    "I'm outtie 5000" ― Romulux

    Johari/Nohari

  9. #159
    meinmeinmein! mmhmm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    2,300

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    What you save in your 20s and early 30s has a huge impact on what you end up having 30 or 40 years later even if your compensation is a relatively small number compared to what you make later.
    very true, i invested heavily in gold right when i
    started working. never spent any of my bonuses
    the first few years. the key was to live within
    my means and to never ever get into debt.

    i had credit card debt before, and that was my first
    mission to clear. i hated having that hanging over me.
    it's astonishing for me how a lot of people don't have
    savings, but can still go buy the newest toys and gadgets.
    it's like... okayyyyy...drowning in debt/loans and yet
    spending as if they're financially secure.
    every normal man must be tempted, at times,
    to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag,
    and begin slitting throats.
    h.l. mencken

  10. #160
    Uniqueorn William K's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    986

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    Still, the effect of compounding of interest over time is pretty amazing. What you save in your 20s and early 30s has a huge impact on what you end up having 30 or 40 years later even if your compensation is a relatively small number compared to what you make later. I was astonished when I ran the numbers.
    Yes, but you have to start young. With many youngsters, especially graduates, starting out their working career in debt, it is difficult to save from the get-go.
    4w5, Fi>Ne>Ti>Si>Ni>Fe>Te>Se, sp > so > sx

    appreciates being appreciated, conflicted over conflicts, afraid of being afraid, bad at being bad, predictably unpredictable, consistently inconsistent, remarkably unremarkable...

    I may not agree with what you are feeling, but I will defend to death your right to have a good cry over it

    The whole problem with the world is that fools & fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. ~ Bertrand Russell

Similar Threads

  1. Everyone in the US Knew There Might be a Housing Bubble
    By nomadic in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 46
    Last Post: 12-29-2009, 12:00 AM
  2. Foreign students in the US
    By Moiety in forum Academics and Careers
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 10-12-2009, 09:57 PM
  3. Is ideology the bane of intellectual sophistication in the US?
    By coberst in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 06-13-2009, 01:18 PM
  4. MBTIc votes in the US election
    By Economica in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 110
    Last Post: 10-31-2008, 08:38 PM
  5. Christianity's Fall from Grace (in the US)
    By mippus in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 04-08-2008, 11:31 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO