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  1. #21
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Unfortunately, I don't think those who are truly in charge have any sense of national allegiance. They swear fealty to nothing but power and riches.

  2. #22
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Unfortunately, I don't think those who are truly in charge have any sense of national allegiance. They swear fealty to nothing but power and riches.
    how do you know this?

  3. #23
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    I don't think anyone disagrees that we need to take a hard look at what we're spending, and how we're spending it. I'm just afraid that there is so much concentration on austerity measures at this moment for the specific purpose of suppressing the future tax increases, even when it could be to the ultimate detriment of our country.
    Look at it this way... at present our country borrows about a third of its annual budget, if I remember right. In order to offset this with higher taxes, you would have to increase the overall tax rate by an equivalent inverse amount... or half-again what we're paying now, with no additional value returned for our government dollars.

    If that happens, I don't know about you, but I will be bankrupted.

  4. #24
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Or we could, you know, raise taxes.
    And at what point do you stop, particularly as fewer and fewer workers are responsible for more and more expensive and politically powerful dependents (i.e. old people)?

  5. #25
    Oberon
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    I'm not sure that people here understand... it's not just a matter of tuning and fiddling with a few percentage points here and there. Radical change is coming, if not through us then to us.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Or we could, you know, raise taxes.
    Agreed. Ah, yes there's all this "wasteful" spending to help people with health problems or old age, but granting CEOs 80 times what they're actually worth and not taxing the fuck out of them is o-tay.

    This is a moral problem, though, and people who ethically value the rights of self-absorbed rich fucks who are playing golf as their much lower paid employees actually work for a living over the rights of ordinary citizens who may suffer from mental illness, physical illness, or the effects of old age really can't be "reasoned" with.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Santosha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    There is definitely more than a grain of truth in what you're saying OMT.

    Whether for good or for ill, I think the problem is so massive that we will be forced use both cuts and taxes whether we want to or not. Our government will (ultimately) be forced to choose between dropping the shallow political rhetoric we see today for a more pragmatic approach, or face drastic ebb in our national prominence (putting it lightly).
    I think both cash cows need to be cut DRASTICALLY.. entitlement spending and military.
    Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun - Watts

  8. #28
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    I'm not sure that people here understand... it's not just a matter of tuning and fiddling with a few percentage points here and there. Radical change is coming, if not through us then to us.
    It'll be interesting (in the Chinese sense) to see where the shit will hit the fan first; Europe has worse demographics and an already excessive tax burden, but the United States has that exploding debt problem...

  9. #29
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Agreed. Ah, yes there's all this "wasteful" spending to help people with health problems or old age, but granting CEOs 80 times what they're actually worth and not taxing the fuck out of them is o-tay.
    You can soak the CEOs in the interest of justice if you like, but that won't do much to solve the country's debt problem. There are too many aging boomers and not enough overpaid CEOs.

  10. #30
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    Wait! I have an idea...if these fuckwads would stop exploiting the people who are actually *making* them rich - I mean, by paying them what they're worth, instead of granting themselves completely arbitrary and irrational amounts of money - maybe we COULD do away with some entitlement spending via the government.

    There's another idea. I mean, you know, I understand that the CEO or owner of the company is wealthy, but basically stealing from the labor of your own employees and then saying they shouldn't have government help either isn't really rational or ethical.

    It also would keep taxes from being raised.

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