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Thread: Socialism

  1. #111
    Senior Member ScorpioINTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    Money represents human effort
    Divided by counterfeit currency + inflation/time.
    Type 6w5 sp/so/sx I think..I have not fully explored this and just discovered it.

  2. #112
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    Money represents human effort
    money represents human VALUE. effort by itself has no value

  3. #113
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    money represents human VALUE. effort by itself has no value
    What is the value of a person who lacks effort?

  4. #114
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perch420 View Post
    I am an authoritarian socialist in that I believe that the best way to increase the standard of living in a society is to maximize equality of opportunity for all. Meaning that "poverty", which is defined as being poor to the point that it interferes with a person's ability to do certain things like get an education, be well-fed or well-rested, etc, should be eliminated at all costs, because the damage to society of one Einstein dying in poverty, or any person really, not being able to contribute to the workforce even if they are capable and willing to, is far more than a CEO being taxed an extra .01%.

    I am an authoritarian in that I believe people are too short-sighted and unintelligent to understand that this is the most optimal way to organize society; therefore, all political power will be in control of a small group of people, headed by one person with ultimate authority and with good intentions towards the human race. There is a significant danger of corruption and abuse of power when so much is in control by so few, but it is far better than the worthless Republicanism we have, where ANY suggestion to improve society in ANY way is immediately struck down by nauseating self-serving scumbags supported by their inbred constituents.

    I am also a strong believer in eugenics, hawkish foreign policy when it comes to overthrowing dictatorships and governments that kill or oppress their people, one world government, the death penalty, anti-multiculturalism when it comes to things like female circumcision and Sharia law (I don't care if you celebrate Hannukha or wear a turban), state atheism and suppression of religion, or at least government-sponsored programs to educate the masses of the stupidity of religious fate, and other things considered "totalitarian" by today's standards. I am also a social progressive; I believe in the complete legalization of all drugs, gay marriage, the right to bear arms, etc, and in general would prefer it if the government would not involve itself in people's private lives.
    I am vehemently against your stance, but I am intrigued by your bluntness. (more than) a few questions
    1) how will the economy run?
    2) how can people possibly be happy under such oppressive dictatorial rule?
    3) how will you prevent an uprising?
    4) who would be the dictator?
    5) what is your ultimate objective with this type of government?
    6) how long do you honestly think such a rule could last?
    7) what's to stop the oligarchy members from fighting amongst themselves and/or killing the more power dictator in his sleep?
    8) it is true that morality without religion is not impossible for individuals, but do you really expect a completely atheistic society to be moral at all as a whole?
    9) how are people motivated to do anything?
    10) how would any kind of growth occur past the conception of the oligarchy and dictator?
    11) how do the oligarchal members choose new members?
    12) what if the dictator dies?
    13) what if the dictator goes bad?
    14) would YOU even be happy in this society?
    15) what is more important in life than the happiness you would most certainly take away from everyone?
    16) how can a governmental system be nearly efficient enough to run the entire world without collapsing?
    17) how is any of this possible at all?
    18) do you value human life at all?

    that being said, I think you have the right idea with legalizing drugs, gay marriage and right to bear arms (though this would certainly be a threat to your proposed system lol). these things don't sound very authoritarian to me.

  5. #115
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    What is the value of a person who lacks effort?
    you've switched my words around illogically. effort is required to gain value, but that does not mean that effort by itself is valuable. most people exert tremendous amounts of effort towards completely useless activities.

  6. #116
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    Um, Perch clearly values human life if he wants no one to live in poverty and he's so concerned with the risk of even one Einstein dying. I would say that his hawkish war views also value innocent human life, as does his views against things like female circumcision. He also wants gay marriage legalized and the government to stay out of people's private lives.

    I'd say he values human life quite highly.

    I think he's too extreme, but I actually understand where he's coming from to a certain point.

    This is an epic sentence fragment:

    where ANY suggestion to improve society in ANY way is immediately struck down by nauseating self-serving scumbags supported by their inbred constituents.

  7. #117
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    you've switched my words around illogically. effort is required to gain value, but that does not mean that effort by itself is valuable. most people exert tremendous amounts of effort towards completely useless activities.
    I did not intend to switch your words around. I merely want to know what you perceive as value.

  8. #118
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Um, Perch clearly values human life if he wants no one to live in poverty and he's so concerned with the risk of even on Einstein dying. I would say that his hawkish war views also value innocent human life, as does his views against things like female circumcision. He also wants gay marriage legalized and the government to stay out of people's private lives.

    I'd say he values human life quite highly.

    I think he's too extreme, but I actually understand where he's coming from to a certain point.
    I actually agree with a few of his points too (the ones that aren't authoritarian), but the very nature of authoritarianism inevitably disrespects human life. it is impossible to respect people if you are trying to control them and won't except them for what they are. by this logic, I believe that no one who is strongly authoritarian places acceptable value in human life, although I am open to counterpoints

  9. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    most people exert tremendous amounts of effort towards completely useless activities.
    What exactly do you mean by "useless"?

  10. #120
    Senior Member Santosha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Um, Perch clearly values human life if he wants no one to live in poverty and he's so concerned with the risk of even on Einstein dying. I would say that his hawkish war views also value innocent human life, as does his views against things like female circumcision. He also wants gay marriage legalized and the government to stay out of people's private lives.

    I'd say he values human life quite highly.

    I think he's too extreme, but I actually understand where he's coming from to a certain point.

    This is an epic sentence fragment:
    Um... Perch *seems* to be very intelligent.. but I believe he is a 15 yr old kid... and therefore question his LIFE EXPERIENCE.
    Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun - Watts

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