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Thread: Socialism

  1. #101
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huxley3112 View Post
    Tens of millions of US citizens... that qualify for medicare, medicaide, and will ALWAYS receive treatment in emergency situations. HMMMM. I'm sorry, I missed something though.. are YOU a Canadian? How bout we let people that have experience with it speak? lol.
    You should look at the life expectancy of US citizens and compare it to that of other nations. You might be surprised.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ife_expectancy

    Here we see the United States tied with Cuba (lol, communism) at 36th. Excellent health care in the US, no doubt.

    Emergency situations mean very little, because the vast majority of medical procedures are neither applicable during emergencies, nor are they administered to citizens who cannot pay for the procedures. If you are under the impression that emergency rooms are designed to treat any and all illnesses, from any and all patients, you are delusional.

    Health care is a luxury in the United States.

  2. #102
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freeeekyyy View Post
    I don't think socialism is ideal, but it's not as destructive as some make it out to be. It can work, but it's by nature not as efficient as free markets. People as a whole know what's better for themselves than an individual holding a political office.
    Because of unbridled corporations a person in a free market may have just as little say or even less say in what they want than they would if they could vote for a representative.
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  3. #103
    Resident Snot-Nose GZA's Avatar
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    Canadians do, in fact, fucking love their healthcare, it is so much better than nothing I think anyone here who would like to change to a private system would be diagnosed with insanity and placed in a publicly funded asylum! We do complain about it a lot, and there are things that could be improved, but its the kind of complaining people do about things they really strongly support and just want to improve... if that makes any sense. Like how everyone bitches about the Leafs but still watches them and cheers for them.

    Canadian healthcare is better than the Leafs, btw

  4. #104
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GZA View Post
    Canadians do, in fact, fucking love their healthcare I think anyone here who would like to change to a private system would be diagnosed with insanity and placed in a publicly funded asylum! We do complain about it a lot, and there are things that could be improved, but its the kind of complaining people do about things they really strongly support and just want to improve... if that makes any sense. Like how everyone bitches about the Leafs but still watches them and cheers for them.

    Canadian healthcare is better than the Leafs, btw
    I seem to recall that the state of health care has higher approval in the UHC nations than it does in the USA consistently. But if that's true, I no longer have a link to that information to confirm it.
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  5. #105
    Senior Member Perch420's Avatar
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    That said, I am no fan of the Soviet Union or North Korea or any other "authoritarian socialist" state that has existed in the past.

  6. #106
    Senior Member Perch420's Avatar
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    double post oops

  7. #107
    Senior Member Perch420's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huxley3112 View Post
    So Nobody can offer up an example of a successful socialist economy?

    I attribute this to the general understanding that intellectually socialism sounds wonderful, but in reality it creates slaves. Some individuals are slaves by providing beneifts to and for others, and some are slaves to their neediness.

    MOST socialists declare that the state owes subsistence, well-being, and education to all its citizens.. that it should be generous, charitable, involved in everthing, devoted to everybody... that it should intervene directly to relieve all suffering, satisfy and anticipate all wants, furnish capital to all enterprises, enlightenment to all minds, balm for all wounds, asylums for all the unfortunate, and even aid to the point of shedding blood, for all oppressed people on the face of the earth.

    What a nice thought. =) Who wouldn't want to see this happen....

    But where do we draw the resources? Where does this never ending pool of goodness spring from? Individuals themselves, ofcourse.

    So how can these resources be increased by passing through the hands of a parasitical and voracious intermediary?

    Real life socialism: people transformed into petitioners. Landed property, agriculture, industry, commerce, shipping, industrial companies.. all bestiring themselves to claim favors from the state. Everyone has good reasons to prove that legal fraternity should be interpreted in this sense: "Let me have the benefits, and let others pay the costs." Everyone's effort is directed towards snatching a scrap of fraternal privilege from the legislature.. and the suffering classes, although having the greatest need do not have the greatest success.
    Finland, Norway, and Sweden are all democratic socialist states that have median incomes close to or even higher than that of the United States.

  8. #108
    Senior Member Perch420's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huxley3112 View Post
    You can spin the definition however you want to but socialism is wrong.

    Your essentially taking something from someone who's earned it and giving it to someone who hasn't, by FORCE.

    Morally, it is nothing more than government sanctioned stealing.

    While socialism may not lead to communism, it is one step from communism. Karl Marx said so himself.
    Money can't be "earned".

  9. #109
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Money represents human effort

  10. #110
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    I'm just going to keep dropping facts about why socialism is whack

    you have to understand the mind of a rich person to understand why socialism is a no-no. you see, when you tax the hell out of rich people, you create many more problems than you solve. rich people are going to get their goddamn money. if you tax the hell out of their legal profits, they will do one of 2 things
    1) resort to illegal measures of optaining wealth
    2) leaving the country
    both of these things are VERY bad for the economy and wellbeing of citizens. you want rich people in america and you want to keep them happy because when they leave they take with them:
    1) stimulating investment capital
    2) enterprising skills and ideas
    3) lots of potential jobs
    4) increased market competition (ie lower prices)
    5) when an exodus of wealthy citizens occurs, a HUGE drop in the country's net value results.

    socialism goes against the entirety of human psychology and biology
    1) people are more motivated by personal gain than by helping others....and this is a good thing
    2) people are more motivated to achieve when they are not constrained by loads of bureacracy and are allowed to do what they want
    3) richer people do tend to be happier, contrary to what people might tell you
    4) people are not just going to be productive because they're "supposed to", if you have a system that takes the personal reward out of productivity, people will stop being productive and become dredges of society
    5) that being said, people do genuinely like to help other people, but they like to give on their own terms and give to whom they want to how much they want to. also, private donations tend to be put to better use than government issued money and private doners (which is spend rapidly and foolishly in an attempt to keep the money coming in)
    6) people genuinely want win/win scenarios. purchasing a product with money is one such scenario. to incentivize as much business as possible is to incentivize a cyclical effect of win/win scenarios. that net gain is called (true) economic growth
    7) money is the root of all evil simply because people without it are too insignificant to do any lasting evil
    8) that being said, a rotten apple spoils the bag. a rotten politician can spoil the government. the more powerful the government, the more likely it is to turn bad, which will have dangerous consequences for it's citizens (cases in point: Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia, Cambodia, The Middle East, various African countries, various South and Central American Countries)
    9) socialism disincentivizes taking responsibility for one's actions. this kind of treatments turns citizens into needy, government dependent children. hardly economically sustainable

    all this being said, I don't think people should even vote if they don't have at least a basic grasp of economics. you can't make an informed decision about who do vote for if you don't know the consequences of their actions.

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