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View Poll Results: Should minimum wage be abolished?

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  • Yes.

    10 18.52%
  • No.

    39 72.22%
  • I don't know.

    5 9.26%
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  1. #61
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    I didn't want to bring up that point, actually.

    But yes, businesses ARE hiring illegal immigrants and paying them under the table. Which means that they're the only ones who can get those jobs, essentially.

    And it raises an important question... why do we deserve to be paid more than them? Do we work that much harder? Or are we just inherently too good to have to do the kind of jobs they do? That seems to be the message people are sending...
    I actually legally worked a minimum wage job straight out of college and had to continually work double and occasional triple shifts to afford a cheap apartment in a really bad area, where I got robbed twice and a dead body was found nearby in the lake. Minimum wage will kill you slowly... No matter where you are from. The problem isn't that there are illegal immigrants really... Its the cheap-ass owners who will happily break the law in order to avoid paying the people who do the hard work a living wage
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  2. #62
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    I actually legally worked a minimum wage job straight out of college and had to continually work double and occasional triple shifts to afford a cheap apartment in a really bad area, where I got robbed twice and a dead body was found nearby in the lake. Minimum wage will kill you slowly... No matter where you are from. The problem isn't that there are illegal immigrants really... Its the cheap-ass owners who will happily break the law in order to avoid paying the people who do the hard work a living wage
    And yet... were you not grateful to have that job and that apartment, rather than be unemployed and making nothing?

    That's the problem, though... business tends to attract very cheap, unethical people who are willing to exploit others. Those are the sort of people who rise to the top. And it's them that we all have to appeal to for jobs. That is what I'm trying to do... offer them what they probably want most. A lot of work for minimum expense. The current laws prevent me from doing that.

  3. #63
    Tier 1 Member LunaLuminosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    Whoah, this begs the question of how one quantifies human life as it relates to contribution to society. Did Mother Teresa really contribute more than she harmed?
    I don't really know where you are going with that example, but from what I read it seems that she has contributed lots of good stuff to other people. I think most of us would agree that helping other people to live is a valid contribution, but I do see where the issue of contribution gets ambiguous. It's all very abstract. And I am not saying that someone who makes no visible contribution doesn't deserve enough supplies to live. That just wouldn't be cool at all. We should all be able to live.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    And yet... were you not grateful to have that job and that apartment, rather than be unemployed and making nothing?

    That's the problem, though... business tends to attract very cheap people who are willing to exploit others. Those are the sort of people who rise to the top. And it's them that we all have to appeal to for jobs.
    Why not move out, make your own living off minimum wage (or less than), live with eight other people, and then get back to us after eight months of that grand experience and share if your opinion has changed at all:?

    At risk of losing my "N" Club card, this discussion is far too revolving around various personal theories and speculations. It probably won't hit any sort of resolution or come to agreement without testing these ideas out.

    EDIT: Interesting poll results.
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  5. #65
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Why not move out, make your own living off minimum wage (or less than), live with eight other people, and then get back to us after eight months of that grand experience and share if your opinion has changed at all:?

    At risk of losing my "N" Club card, this discussion is far too revolving around various personal theories and speculations. It probably won't hit any sort of resolution or come to agreement without testing these ideas out.

    EDIT: Interesting poll results
    .
    The poll results are actually not interesting at all. I was hoping for people to come through with something else that we didn't think of.
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  6. #66
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    I don't think that eliminating the minimum wage would accomplish anything significant for our national economy. Honestly, nobody who really contributes value to the economy is making anywhere close to minimum. Even a burger-flipper at a fast-food place will be paid more than minimum if he or she can demonstrate basic ability to accept training, stay on task, and show up for work on time.
    I honestly think it's intended more for rural areas, where there aren't as many options for employment other than minimum wage jobs or not much higher.

  7. #67
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    - What about the person who needs more than those 3 dollars to feed his family? Won't the one accepting the 3 ruin the wages for the rest?
    - Also, what about purchase power? The Chinese migrant workers you want the West to emulate can't even afford most of the stuff they build?
    - Also, you can outsource certain labor intensive jobs that require little to no qualification to places where people are starvin on the streets, but there will always be many jobs that have to be filled locally. What about those?
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  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunaLuminosity View Post
    I don't really know where you are going with that example, but from what I read it seems that she has contributed lots of good stuff to other people. I think most of us would agree that helping other people to live is a valid contribution, but I do see where the issue of contribution gets ambiguous. It's all very abstract. And I am not saying that someone who makes no visible contribution doesn't deserve enough supplies to live. That just wouldn't be cool at all. We should all be able to live.
    She also refused to support condom usage, which correlates to unwanted pregnancies and the spreading of STIs, some fatal. The hospices that she created didn't believe in modern medicine which means that people were made to suffer unnecessarily or even died. Her belief was that suffering brings people closer to Jesus so that's why there was no usage of painkillers. There's more but it's not necessary to expand on. So, it brings it back to valuation again, perhaps net valuation, as compared to subjective valuation.

  9. #69
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    And yet... were you not grateful to have that job and that apartment, rather than be unemployed and making nothing?

    That's the problem, though... business tends to attract very cheap, unethical people who are willing to exploit others. Those are the sort of people who rise to the top. And it's them that we all have to appeal to for jobs. That is what I'm trying to do... offer them what they probably want most. A lot of work for minimum expense. The current laws prevent me from doing that.

    So, leave the cheapos at the top, making all the money.. Remove dollars from the hard working, skilled middle class. Take that money and give it to unskilled labor so that we'll all be spread about the bottom. Have new lower class get together in groups of eight to survive. Somehow I feel like I'm getting the short straw here.
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  10. #70
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    The hospices that she created didn't believe in modern medicine which means that people were made to suffer unnecessarily or even died.
    Um... yeah.

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