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View Poll Results: Should minimum wage be abolished?

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  • Yes.

    10 18.52%
  • No.

    39 72.22%
  • I don't know.

    5 9.26%
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  1. #131
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    Well, it may be exactly as you say. It's possible that the church did not want to get into the business of dispensing pain medication because of the risk of becoming targets of drug-motivated crime. Regardless of motivation, I would note that 1) such care as Mother Theresa and her organization was willing to provide was given free of charge, and 2) the care given (such as it was) was not coercive. If a patient didn't like it, he or she was free to seek help elsewhere.
    As you can see, our discussion only solidifies my point to luna luminosity that it would be impossible to quantify individual's contribution to society. You see her contribution as net positive. I see her contribution as net negative.

  2. #132
    It's always something... PuddleRiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Lol. I've heard the exact same logic in reverse, and see older people getting turned away from some positions because they're not young. And businesses are loathe to hire over-qualified people for entry level jobs, because they never stay in the position long, they're almost guaranteed to drop the position as soon as they find something better. Who wants to deal with high turnover?

    So do you think you could room with a lot of people?
    This is what my husband and I are seeing, as well.
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  3. #133
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eckhart View Post
    Or they will export their goods to countries with higher wages.
    Wait, that's actually right...

    So, this is to what the world has come down. Either the labor is exported overseas to places with cheap labor, or the goods are exported overseas to places with high wages? We have consumer countries, and producer countries, and no balance?

    What IS this? I don't think I like it...

  4. #134
    Superwoman Red Herring's Avatar
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    Welcome to the free market.
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  5. #135
    Cheeseburgers freeeekyyy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    Before I respond to the points stated in your post, you might want to read this old article from The Economist:

    http://economistsview.typepad.com/ec...ency_wage.html
    After reading that article, I partially agree with it. I think it fails to look at the entire picture, though. The reason an increase in minimum wage in one state draws people from states with lower minimum wage is because the other state had lower minimum wage. Assuming no minimum wage nationwide, that's not going to be a problem. When everyone uses the same currency, an increase in pay in one area will draw people there. It's easy for the people in question to move across the state line and make more money. What this article fails to consider is that if there is no minimum wage anywhere, this can't happen. If most people earn $50/hr, for instance, a person making $2/hr will be very poor. But if most people in the country make $2/hr, that $2/hr is worth a lot more. Wealth doesn't disappear. If you have a certain level of productivity, that money will go somewhere. And not necessarily all to hte CEO as people claim. If management wants employees who meet their needs, they have to pay them what they demand. What I see this as is willful ignorance of known economic laws just because people don't like the consequences. It's simple supply and demand. If workers refuse to work for less than x amount, the supply isn't there. Either employers decide that it's not worth it to them to hire the individual, or they pay them what they're asking for. Being that the value of a dollar is not set in stone, I honestly can't see why anybody would be against the elimination of minimum wage, other than either ignorance or a refusal to change their own beliefs.
    You lose.

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  6. #136
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    The point isn't the dollar amount.
    I don't see anything principally wrong with capping income.

    There are problems that could be encountered when it comes to actually enforcing this, however. I personally advocate a hyper-progressive tax that, while not being an income cap, does keep the net income distribution from being even remotely has hyperbolic as it currently is, even if the pre-tax income still is.
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  7. #137
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    As you can see, our discussion only solidifies my point to luna luminosity that it would be impossible to quantify individual's contribution to society. You see her contribution as net positive. I see her contribution as net negative.
    The question that this leads me to ask myself is: What's my contribution?

  8. #138
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freeeekyyy View Post
    After reading that article, I partially agree with it. I think it fails to look at the entire picture, though. The reason an increase in minimum wage in one state draws people from states with lower minimum wage is because the other state had lower minimum wage. Assuming no minimum wage nationwide, that's not going to be a problem. When everyone uses the same currency, an increase in pay in one area will draw people there. It's easy for the people in question to move across the state line and make more money. What this article fails to consider is that if there is no minimum wage anywhere, this can't happen. If most people earn $50/hr, for instance, a person making $2/hr will be very poor. But if most people in the country make $2/hr, that $2/hr is worth a lot more. Wealth doesn't disappear. If you have a certain level of productivity, that money will go somewhere. And not necessarily all to hte CEO as people claim. If management wants employees who meet their needs, they have to pay them what they demand. What I see this as is willful ignorance of known economic laws just because people don't like the consequences. It's simple supply and demand. If workers refuse to work for less than x amount, the supply isn't there. Either employers decide that it's not worth it to them to hire the individual, or they pay them what they're asking for. Being that the value of a dollar is not set in stone, I honestly can't see why anybody would be against the elimination of minimum wage, other than either ignorance or a refusal to change their own beliefs.
    If you want to take up one level, let's look at it globally. The U.S. is the largest single nation consumer, bar none. So...if American wages were to drop to $2/hour, they wouldn't be able to afford to buy cheap imported goods. Now if they can't afford to buy these goods, the manufacturing jobs in other countries would disappear. This means that global conglomerates would loose their profits since their demand would disappear. So then they drop prices. Now what would guarantee that they wouldn't drop salaries again to ensure for a similar profit margin? What's to ensure that sweat factory conditions don't reappear for the majority of American workers?

    Now, let's look at a commodity like oil. The price is openly being inflated through OPEC's market manipulation. How do you propose America handles this uncontrollable aspect, especially in the current tinder condition and anti-U.S. sentiments in the Middle East? Do you suppose that OPEC would drop their prices if the U.S. removed minimum wages on a Federal level?

    And you mentioned countries without minimum wages who don't have sweat shop conditions. Can you list one?

  9. #139
    Cheeseburgers freeeekyyy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    And you mentioned countries without minimum wages who don't have sweat shop conditions. Can you list one?
    As an earlier poster mentioned, Germany, for one.
    You lose.

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  10. #140
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freeeekyyy View Post
    As an earlier poster mentioned, Germany, for one.
    I don't imagine this could be possible if not for the enormous amount of regulation and intervention Germany practices in general.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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