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View Poll Results: Should minimum wage be abolished?

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  • Yes.

    10 18.52%
  • No.

    39 72.22%
  • I don't know.

    5 9.26%
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  1. #111
    Cheeseburgers freeeekyyy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    Does anyone think that raising minimum wage creates money out of nowhere? Paying the lowest earners more doesn't lower the value of currency overall. You're getting it confused with inflation.

    A minimum wage limits (to a small degree) the gap between the working poor and the working middle class. It certainly is false to say "it's not good for anybody", when you consider the alternative situation with no minimum wage.
    The alternative is that people don't make as much money. Productivity doesn't go down, in fact it may increase, therefore the value of that money increases.
    You lose.

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  2. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    Not quite. Minimum wage ensures that a sufficient amount of money remains in circulation, to ensure for economic viability. If money is hoarded by the top 10%, it's not good for economic growth.
    This.

    If we go back to the times where the poorest people are making their own soap out of lye and animal fat, growing their own food, and dying at home (sometimes at young ages) because they can't afford healthcare, that puts less money circulating into the economy.

    I really don't think people look at this straight, or they don't consider what has happened in our nation's own history or in other countries.

    Of course there are some people who have an excessively romanticized version of history - and hey, I did too...when I was a teenager and didn't realize that the Victorian novels I read were about middle and upper class people, and that many other people were literally dying on the streets or in dirty hovels - and they're like "oh that didn't happen" or "It wasn't that bad!"

  3. #113
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    no. i am an advocate of capping how much money people should be allowed to have, however, as well as getting rid of corporate tax cuts. i'm sorry, but you don't need that extra million. i don't give a shit how hard your granddaddy worked or whether it's "your money". people are starving. give up a damn yacht and let a few thousand children eat and give back jobs to the middle class. the government exists for the good of the people, not to protect your expensive ass.

  4. #114
    likes this gromit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Of course there are some people who have an excessively romanticized version of history - and hey, I did too...when I was a teenager and didn't realize that the Victorian novels I read were about middle and upper class people, and that many other people were literally dying on the streets or in dirty hovels - and they're like "oh that didn't happen" or "It wasn't that bad!"
    UGH I dated somebody in college who was like that...
    Your kisses, sweeter than honey. But guess what, so is my money.

  5. #115
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freeeekyyy View Post
    The alternative is that people don't make as much money. Productivity doesn't go down, in fact it may increase, therefore the value of that money increases.
    No, actually.

    The alternative is that people become a drain on the social networks like welfare and the food bank, leading to increased taxes and problems funding essential services.

    The alternative in the absence of those networks is people dying, increased crime, and increased disease.

    The alternative makes it more difficult for working class people to become more educated and skilled, preventing them from reaching higher-paying jobs. It also makes it more difficult for their children to do so, perpetuating the cycle.

    Does that sound productive to you?
    -end of thread-

  6. #116
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freeeekyyy View Post
    The alternative is that people don't make as much money. Productivity doesn't go down, in fact it may increase, therefore the value of that money increases.
    No doubt the value of the money increases. But what supply siders don't take into consideration is that there's a finite number of consumers. Businesses can become productivity sinkholes if there's no one left to consume their goods.

  7. #117
    Cheeseburgers freeeekyyy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    No, actually.

    The alternative is that people become a drain on the social networks like welfare and the food bank, leading to increased taxes and problems funding essential services.

    The alternative in the absence of those networks is people dying, increased crime, and increased disease.

    The alternative makes it more difficult for working class people to become more educated and skilled, preventing them from reaching higher-paying jobs. It also makes it more difficult for their children to do so, perpetuating the cycle.

    Does that sound productive to you?
    I don't see that happening, considering that many very productive countries in this world don't have any of those problems despite having no minimum wage.
    You lose.

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  8. #118
    Cheeseburgers freeeekyyy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    No doubt the value of the money increases. But what supply siders don't take into consideration is that there's a finite number of consumers. Businesses can become productivity sinkholes if there's no one left to consume their goods.
    Of course. I understand this. But then what happens is they lower their prices. Of course assuming static goods prices, nobody could afford to buy anything and productivity would halt, but that wouldn't be the case.
    You lose.

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  9. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    No doubt the value of the money increases. But what supply siders don't take into consideration is that there's a finite number of consumers. Businesses can become productivity sinkholes if there's no one left to consume their goods.
    Yes! If the poorest people become so poor (and there aren't social services like food stamps and things) that they can't afford luxuries like Wal-Mart, McDonald's and even store bought clothes (cheaper to make your own clothes, or to own less clothing) ...those businesses fail.

    The economy in this country actually started booming in the 1920's, but it reached a higher standard of living equilibrium in the 1950's following WWII...and the social programs that were put into effect in the 1940's after the New Deal during the Great Depression.

    Decreasing standard of living is decreasing standard of living, and it will affect *most* people, including the middle class.

  10. #120
    Senior Member Eckhart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freeeekyyy View Post
    Of course. I understand this. But then what happens is they lower their prices. Of course assuming static goods prices, nobody could afford to buy anything and productivity would halt, but that wouldn't be the case.
    Or they will export their goods to countries with higher wages.

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