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View Poll Results: Should minimum wage be abolished?

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  • Yes.

    10 18.52%
  • No.

    39 72.22%
  • I don't know.

    5 9.26%
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  1. #101
    Cheeseburgers freeeekyyy's Avatar
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    The problem with minimum wage is people think that by increasing wage, you are increasing wealth. This isn't true. My paying people more currency, you are simply lowering the value of the currency. Minimum wage just prevents the hiring of people who don't meet a threshold of value. It's not good for anybody.

    Basically, the problem comes from associating wealth with currency. Currency is simply a certificate that represents wealth. Wealth is determined by productivity, not currency.
    You lose.

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  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    if we start a nudist colony that has a farm we could be self suffient, than fuck jobs. fuck america. fuck minimum. but until that happens we're stuck with what we got and getting rid of minimum wage isn't going to solve problems.
    Yes, my sister is warily preparing for the libertarians to take over. Our family has discussed buying land together and living as a group and being as self-sufficient as possible, which wouldn't be a huge stretch for us, being working class people from West Virginia in the first place.

    That's worst case scenario, but it's a good plan. I love my ENFJ sister. She learned carpentry and how to fix cars because my mother used to get ripped off by unethical lying men for this type of work she needed as a single mother clueless as how to do these things herself.

    That's Fe/Ni vision right there, with some healthy tertiary Se flexed.

  3. #103
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freeeekyyy View Post
    The problem with minimum wage is people think that by increasing wage, you are increasing wealth. This isn't true. My paying people more currency, you are simply lowering the value of the currency. Minimum wage just prevents the hiring of people who don't meet a threshold of value. It's not good for anybody.

    Basically, the problem comes from associating wealth with currency. Currency is simply a certificate that represents wealth. Wealth is determined by productivity, not currency.
    I'm associating wealth with money, yeah.
    I don't understand economics but this sounds like some stuff people who have money say to people who don't.

  4. #104
    Senior Member Santosha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Nothing like hysteria to make a thread complete.
    Oh come now.. what is there to be hysterical of? The foundations of capitalism shattering?
    Maybe we need that... maybe we need simpler times where we are all walking around with donkeys and pots clanging to the side.

    I like donkeys
    Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun - Watts

  5. #105
    Cheeseburgers freeeekyyy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    I'm associating wealth with money, yeah.
    I don't understand economics but this sounds like some stuff people who have money say to people who don't.
    Nope. Been unemployed for almost 2 years. Don't make stuff up.


    How does a sheet of paper give you wealth? It doesn't. It gives you a certificate of exchange for wealth. Wealth which is increased and lowered by how much the society produces. Assuming the same degree of productivity, by paying more paper, the divisions of the paper just become smaller.
    You lose.

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  6. #106
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    I'm beginning to think so. I feel that our country is just not doing what it takes to compete with other countries. We're pushing business away by making it too expensive to do business here. It seems that the solution would involve permitting a lower quality of life than what we've become accustomed to, but while still allowing people to live.

    The way the economy is currently configured, jobs are scarce partly because it's expensive to pay employees. The "bottom rung" is increasingly higher and difficult to reach.

    If employers were free to pay employees as little as they wished, more low-paying jobs would likely open up. Low-income is better than no income, right?

    What do you think? Has minimum-wage done more harm than good, or is it really a good thing? Why or why not?

    At the very least, I think it should be lowered back to $4.25. $7.25 is ridiculously high.
    Wow its that low in the US? Ours is rising to NZ$13 (which according to the currency converter, is US$9.55) and people aren't happy at all with the small increase - mind you, we don't have a tipping system. But our unemployment rate is 6.8% whereas in USA its 9.8%.

    I do understand your argument but I don't think the minimum wage is the primary cause of the economic problems in the US. Abolishing the minimum wage will only open the poor up to further exploitation by the rich and no one will benefit. The whole trickle down effect economic theory has been proven to be total BS - all it has done is make the rich richer and the poor poorer.
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  7. #107
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eckhart View Post
    You have to either way. That's a matter of the money system. Money comes from the banks by giving credit. I heard some easy example to explain it. Let's say at a starting point there is 10 people who get a credit of 10$ each. So there is 100$ in the economy. The bank however takes 10% interests, so you have to pay back 11$ to pay back your debts. Now assume everyone had 10$ at the end of the loan time again, now no one can pay their debts, so everyone has to take a new credit to pay the old one. Of course the money could have been distributed differently, one guy could "loose" his money to the others so the others can pay their debts, but at least someone cannot pay back their debts so he has to take new debts to pay the old ones. That will continue as it goes, and that is our money system. It is impossible that at least everyone can pay back their debts, and since debts increase exponential because of interests, the debts get more and more and so no government can really pay their debts anymore. That's no problem as long as with the increasing amount of debts and money there comes an economic growth which represents that growth in money, but economy cannot grow exponentially all the time eventually. Either way, in the current system debts are not avoidable and so it does not help to make thoughts about how to pay back debts since you cannot anyway, you just can try to minimize the growth of debts.
    All currency is fiat currency, even that backed up by metals.

    Depressions come from three factors - a debt-deflation crisis (money supply), an overproduction crisis (demand side), and a goods transportation undercapacity crisis (supply side).

  8. #108
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freeeekyyy View Post
    The problem with minimum wage is people think that by increasing wage, you are increasing wealth. This isn't true. My paying people more currency, you are simply lowering the value of the currency. Minimum wage just prevents the hiring of people who don't meet a threshold of value. It's not good for anybody.

    Basically, the problem comes from associating wealth with currency. Currency is simply a certificate that represents wealth. Wealth is determined by productivity, not currency.
    Does anyone think that raising minimum wage creates money out of nowhere? Paying the lowest earners more doesn't lower the value of currency overall. You're getting it confused with inflation.

    A minimum wage limits (to a small degree) the gap between the working poor and the working middle class. It certainly is false to say "it's not good for anybody", when you consider the alternative situation with no minimum wage.
    -end of thread-

  9. #109
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    I'm associating wealth with money, yeah.
    I don't understand economics but this sounds like some stuff people who have money say to people who don't.
    Wealth is the stuff that you use that money to buy.

  10. #110
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freeeekyyy View Post
    The problem with minimum wage is people think that by increasing wage, you are increasing wealth. This isn't true. My paying people more currency, you are simply lowering the value of the currency. Minimum wage just prevents the hiring of people who don't meet a threshold of value. It's not good for anybody.

    Basically, the problem comes from associating wealth with currency. Currency is simply a certificate that represents wealth. Wealth is determined by productivity, not currency.
    Not quite. Minimum wage ensures that a sufficient amount of money remains in circulation, to ensure for economic viability. If money is hoarded by the top 10%, it's not good for economic growth.

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