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  1. #51
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Couldn't disagree more. The essence of a constitutional form of government is that the state must prove that it has the authority to act, rather than the people having to prove that it doesn't. That is because in a constitutional system, it is the people themselves who are sovereign.
    This coming from the man who thinks the Tenth amendment is null and void and that the commerce clause is, for all practical purposes, limitless?

  2. #52
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    The measure also would prohibit most unionized public employees, except local police and fire fighters and the State Patrol, from bargaining on issues besides wages. Wage hikes could be negotiated only if they don't exceed the consumer price index.
    This portion is fascinating. Divide and conquer.

    I must admit to liking the CPI cap.

    But you have provided me with information that I wasn't aware of. I knew that the unions had somewhat folded on certain fiscal concessions but wasn't aware they folded on all of them.

  3. #53
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Here are a couple of interesting articles on the subject of public unions:

    http://www.professorbainbridge.com/p...-unionism.html

    http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate...-sector-unions

    Public unions (at least insofar as they are equivalent to private sector unions) are not a civil right and tend to be detrimental to the interests of most people.

  4. #54
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    It is a fascinating concept, but still disturbing to see it affect my brethren.
    My brethren are people who vote, pay taxes, and expect government policy to be accountable to voters rather than privilaged organizations capable of blackmailing everyone else through monopolistic control of public goods: who are yours?

  5. #55
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    My brethren are people who vote, pay taxes, and expect government policy to be accountable to voters rather than privilaged organizations capable of blackmailing everyone else through monopolistic control of public goods: who are yours?
    I was primarily referring to my countrymen

  6. #56
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    Here are a couple of interesting articles on the subject of public unions:

    http://www.professorbainbridge.com/p...-unionism.html

    http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate...-sector-unions

    Public unions (at least insofar as they are equivalent to private sector unions) are not a civil right and tend to be detrimental to the interests of most people.
    Both of these articles are opinions of two individuals. I plan to sit back and wait for the ramifications of the ham-fistedness of the Wisconsin Rep. Senate.

  7. #57
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    Both of these articles are opinions of two individuals. I plan to sit back and wait for the ramifications of the ham-fistedness of the Wisconsin Rep. Senate.
    Two individuals who presented arguements against viewing public unions with the capability to strike and collectively bargain as a right, including arguments from such notorious corporate tools as Franklin Roosevelt, national union bosses, and Supreme Court justices. I guess we'll see about the political ramifications, that remains to be seen.

  8. #58
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    This coming from the man who thinks the Tenth amendment is null and void and that the commerce clause is, for all practical purposes, limitless?
    Your argument is not with me, bud, but the Supreme Court, in that circumstance

  9. #59
    Member KilgoreTrout's Avatar
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    I know this is off topic but:

    Has anyone mentioned that the WI Republicans took away the Collective Bargaining Rights in an ILLEGAL vote?

    Whatever your political opinions on the matter, they showed, quite clearly, that they have zero regard for their constituents by proceeding in such an underhanded manner. They touted the stripping of these rights as an essential part of balancing the budget even though Democrats were insisting that this did not fall under the umbrella of fiscal issues. The Reps. until last night 100% disagreed until they decided to use a loophole and remove all "fiscal issues" from the proposal and take the vote without having to meet the minimum attendance for said passage. They called the legislation to a vote without giving the Democrats a chance to attend or even review the new bill!

    On topic: Public Sector Pensions should be continued and made good for public service workers such as teachers, postal workers, etc. Politicians continue to have ridiculous pensions after retirement which should be greatly reduced but I highly doubt they will ever vote to lower their own pension plans....only those of the working class.
    "Everyone who believes in telekinesis, raise my hand."

  10. #60
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KilgoreTrout View Post
    I know this is off topic but:

    Has anyone mentioned that the WI Republicans took away the Collective Bargaining Rights in an ILLEGAL vote?

    Whatever your political opinions on the matter, they showed, quite clearly, that they have zero regard for their constituents by proceeding in such an underhanded manner.
    The vote was just as legal as the Democrats fleeing to another state, who showed as much or less regard for Wisconsin constituents by preventing the representatives the constituents voted for from carrying out the policies they ran on. The bill dealt with regulations upon the public workforce that indirectly affect the future fiscal health, tax rates, and cost of services in Wisconsin but do not directly affect taxation or spending itself.

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