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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScorpioINTP View Post
    Kinda selfish reasoning. I suppose you vote republican for the same reason, despite any differences in ideology? (I've known people who do). People lose jobs. That is life. You move on.

    Does she not have skills that could be transferable to any other industry? If it meant the country spending itself into economic failure would you still feel the same way?

    One year of this unnecessary war spending alone could probably solve all our health care, education, economic problems at home.


    America is an empire and has no vulnerability to invasion. We have great geographic borders and positioning too. Military spending is far overstretched to be sustainable. Its kinda like buying a $50 DVD player and then purchasing a $30 extended warranty.

    Our entire way of life needs changing. Those who fail to adapt will be left behind. Just wait til the fresh water starts to run dry and global food demand rises. Will will wish we had the problems we have now.
    With respect it seems like you're suggesting one sort of government employment be substituted for another, that's not going to satisfy the libertarians who want to simultaneously cut all sources of state employment, war or welfare.

  2. #22
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    I could do the same Lark:

    "For the people."

  3. #23
    Senior Member ScorpioINTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    With respect it seems like you're suggesting one sort of government employment be substituted for another, that's not going to satisfy the libertarians who want to simultaneously cut all sources of state employment, war or welfare.
    No, just making a point. I'm kinda libertarian in theory actually. I do think insurance companies are a big suck though. An unnecessary middle man when it comes to healthcare, but that's another argument. Even if that meant more gov, I think you could better use the resources. The free market run amok has proven to be prone to failure however, so I support some forms of regulation...but of course, if you have a corrupt government all bets are off.

    The resources could either go to tax cuts, debt reduction, or funding whatever deficiencies. Since we don't have a national healthcare system that is kinda off the table, but we don't need more Gov. employees to fund education or highways etc. I'm not saying other areas should not be cut either, but defense is the topic at hand and the largest chunk of the pie. The wars are pretty much a farce and unconstitutional anyway...surely unjustified and misdirected at a minimum. I'd be fine with the feds staying out of local/state issues/funding too and being a nanny, but that is not the world we live in at the moment.

    So either cut spending or change policies to promote economic growth and bring back manufacturing and other jobs to the US.

    It's kind of ironic that when our military admin. was more of a defensive force it was called the War dept. and now that it is more offensive we call it Defense dept. No mistake or coincidence I'm sure.
    Type 6w5 sp/so/sx I think..I have not fully explored this and just discovered it.

  4. #24
    Senior Member ScorpioINTP's Avatar
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    We should also legalize pot and some other drugs (no, I don't use it) and get the potheads out of prison and reduce the DEA, ATF. Maybe a new thread on that.
    Type 6w5 sp/so/sx I think..I have not fully explored this and just discovered it.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Why is it so important to make cuts?
    Increased defense spending has diminishing returns. There is a certain amount of spending for which we get good value because there are basic services that the government provides better than private industry, but spending beyond that point has less value. If we were to graph the economic value of defense spending, it would start near 1 ($1 dollar of economic value per dollar spent). It might even be higher than 1. But after those basic services are paid for, the value of each dollar spent decreases and the curve asymptotes to 0. The US is WELL into the diminishing returns region of the curve. That's why defense spending needs to be cut.

    I wish I remembered what kind of mathematical function would give this result. It's been too long...

    Edit: I just remembered. It's the tangent function. Just rotate it, translate it, and scale it properly.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  6. #26
    Honor Thy Inferior Such Irony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Increased defense spending has diminishing returns. There is a certain amount of spending for which we get good value because there are basic services that the government provides better than private industry, but spending beyond that point has less value. If we were to graph the economic value of defense spending, it would start near 1 ($1 dollar of economic value per dollar spent). It might even be higher than 1. But after those basic services are paid for, the value of each dollar spent decreases and the curve asymptotes to 0. The US is WELL into the diminishing returns region of the curve. That's why defense spending needs to be cut.

    I wish I remembered what kind of mathematical function would give this result. It's been too long...
    I completely agree.
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  7. #27
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScorpioINTP View Post
    Kinda selfish reasoning. I suppose you vote republican for the same reason, despite any differences in ideology? (I've known people who do). People lose jobs. That is life. You move on.

    Does she not have skills that could be transferable to any other industry? If it meant the country spending itself into economic failure would you still feel the same way?

    One year of this unnecessary war spending alone could probably solve all our health care, education, economic problems at home.

    America is an empire and has no vulnerability to invasion. We have great geographic borders and positioning too. Military spending is far overstretched to be sustainable. Its kinda like buying a $50 DVD player and then purchasing a $30 extended warranty.

    Our entire way of life needs changing. Those who fail to adapt will be left behind. Just wait til the fresh water starts to run dry and global food demand rises. Will will wish we had the problems we have now.



    That's not something WE can do. We're not capable of finding jobs anymore... we just don't understand the job market. We don't have connections, we don't have that many transferable skills (she only has skills in manufacturing, and there are few such jobs left, while I myself have none to speak of). Basically, if she loses her current job, all bets are off. People like us just can't survive in a down economy. The only reason she was able to get her current job, was because jobs were a lot easier to come by back when she got it. If she lost it, she admits that she probably couldn't find another one in the current economy.

    I think that country is going to fail economically no matter what we do at this point. I think it's too late to do anything. At this point, I feel like we might as well fiddle while Rome burns... enjoy what we have while we can, because it's not going to be here much longer. All that awaits us in the future is pure misery and deprivation, so why bother to prepare for it?

    We've stopped listening to the news, because it's too depressing. I'm trying my best to pretend that the outside world doesn't exist. I only care about maintaining our current situation for as long as I can, because once it's gone, everything is over.

    I can't adapt... to this. It's too much to ask. It's too competitive, it changes too quickly, and it's just... too complicated. I can't deal with it. We can't deal with it.

    I'm perfectly happy when I'm NOT thinking about it, though, so if you don't mind... I'll just go back into denial.

    I will never be satisfied with the options that will be available when we have to change our style of life. It will be too confining. I wish I had been born 10-20 years earlier...

    I'm the sort of person who prefers to dream of a better world, and now I'm being told that I'll have to make do with a much worse one than the one I was born into.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    We have a lot of defense, but nothing to defend ourselves from

    It's a useless chunk of cheddar

    At least all that spending keeps some people employed, but you'd think there would be an easier way to do so...

  9. #29
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    My personal preference is that military spending should be globally reduced, which of course would include the United States.

    But I can't help play devil's advocate since logic dictates it. If you solely focus on the impacts of the military might of the United States, there are financial advantages in being able to protect interests. Now what those interests consist of, would not be politically or even necessarily legally or ethically palatable. So how do you quantify this in real terms when calculating cost/benefit?

  10. #30
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    So how do you quantify this in real terms when calculating cost/benefit?
    Shouldn't this be easy? We could determine the amount spent to protect financial interests, and then determine the revenue from these interests. We would then decide whether the resources gained exceed the resources spent by a specific, minimum threshold predetermined by an oversight committee or some similar entity. We already employ people to do exactly this, so asking them the question wouldn't even be rude.

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