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  1. #11
    Glycerine
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    The USA is clearly listed as an example of a liberal democracy..

    A liberal democracy, also known as a bourgeois democracy or constitutional democracy, is a common form of representative democracy. According to the principles of liberal democracy, the elections should be free and fair, and the political process should be competitive. Political pluralism is usually defined as the presence of multiple and distinct political parties.

    A liberal democracy may take various constitutional forms: it may be a constitutional republic (sometimes federal republic), as the United States, India, Germany or Brazil, or a constitutional monarchy, such as the United Kingdom, Japan, Canada or Spain. It may have a presidential system (United States, Brazil), a parliamentary system (Westminster system, UK and Commonwealth countries, Spain), or a hybrid, semi-presidential system (France).
    MP and I weren't saying it wasn't. The Scandinavian countries seem to be more so so the U.S. might not be the best example.. That's all we are saying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    That's a bunch of stuff I knew already. I didn't say the USA wasn't one, I said it was a poor representative.
    How so? OK.. It's a two party system and they both look a lot alike.. But other than that, it's a pretty good representation. It is home to most free citizens on the planet.. If, freedom is defined by choice, as it is, politically and economically.

  3. #13
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redScorpion View Post
    I like Alex Jones, but I think western democracies want to slowly apply the "chinese style" government to western countries. From what I heard, and from very aware friends.

    But who knows what western people or chinese people are gonna do the next 5 years, maybe a revolution...

    And its true that some US cities are more safe than what the media says. I was in Baltimore (top 10 most dangerous cities in the US) in october, the city was kinda normal.


    But in France, looking people in the eye, is actually a very popular way to get beaten to death, especially in suburbs or banlieues (dangerous areas).
    Depends on what part of the city you are willing to walk into and look at people. Or whether you are looking to get beat up in the first place is another story. Even my city has a notorious area known for how ghetto/gang-crime ridden area it was in it's 80's and 90's. Whether it is still like that is left to interpretation.

    Generally, such things only happen if you are willing to create/invite crime.

  4. #14
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pitseleh View Post
    More like the Scandinavian countries then?
    Agreed. A Scandinavian country would be the best example.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    The USA is clearly listed as an example of a liberal democracy..

    A liberal democracy, also known as a bourgeois democracy or constitutional democracy, is a common form of representative democracy. According to the principles of liberal democracy, the elections should be free and fair, and the political process should be competitive. Political pluralism is usually defined as the presence of multiple and distinct political parties.

    A liberal democracy may take various constitutional forms: it may be a constitutional republic (sometimes federal republic), as the United States, India, Germany or Brazil, or a constitutional monarchy, such as the United Kingdom, Japan, Canada or Spain. It may have a presidential system (United States, Brazil), a parliamentary system (Westminster system, UK and Commonwealth countries, Spain), or a hybrid, semi-presidential system (France).
    And yet how do we fit in since all those places have more accessible healthcare.

    You can get better healthcare in Cuba, bro.

    The United States is *not* the best example of a liberal democracy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Takeru View Post
    Generally, such things only happen if you are willing to create/invite crime.
    No no no, I know the situation in France, it's mostly Afro-arab muslim gangs who dont what to do of their days, they beat up people for "pleasure".

    In my life, there are at least three times I got in a serious fight with knives with people, just because I was "looking" at them. It happens everyday.

    Recent News story in France : A regular guy got in a fight because he was "looking" at the gang (they interpreted it as a "provocation"). The regular guy stabbed one of the guys in neck with scissors. The gangbanger is dead.
    But French people are happy that someone finally "responded"...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    And yet how do we fit in since all those places have more accessible healthcare.

    You can get better healthcare in Cuba, bro.

    The United States is *not* the best example of a liberal democracy.
    Having "more accessible healthcare" had nothing to do with "liberal democracy".
    Expensive healthcare american-style is real liberal democracy.

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    Soicialisim?? Is a part of most liberal democracies, but not essential to the definition.
    Public health care is not liberal democracy,,they had public health care in the Soviet Union.

    Here is the definition of Liberal Democracy. Sweden is no better an example of it, than The USA.
    A liberal democracy, also known as a bourgeois democracy or constitutional democracy, is a common form of representative democracy. According to the principles of liberal democracy, the elections should be free and fair, and the political process should be competitive. Political pluralism is usually defined as the presence of multiple and distinct political parties..

    The Liberal democracies usually have universal suffrage, granting all adult citizens the right to vote regardless of race, gender or property ownership. Historically, however, some countries regarded as liberal democracies have had a more limited franchise, and some do not have secret ballots. There may also be qualifications such as voters being required to register before being allowed to vote. The decisions made through elections are made not by all of the citizens, but rather by those who choose to participate by voting.

    The liberal democratic constitution defines the democratic character of the state. The purpose of a constitution is often seen as a limit on the authority of the government. The Anglo-American political tradition emphasises the separation of powers, an independent judiciary, and a system of checks and balances between branches of government. Many European democracies are more likely to emphasise the importance of the state being a Rechtsstaat that follows the principle of rule of law. Governmental authority is legitimately exercised only in accordance with written, publicly disclosed laws adopted and enforced in accordance with established procedure. Many democracies use federalism—also known as vertical separation of powers—in order to prevent abuse and increase public input by dividing governing powers between municipal, provincial and national governments

    In practice, democracies do have specific limits on specific freedoms. There are various legal limitations such as copyright and laws against defamation. There may be limits on anti-democratic speech, on attempts to undermine human rights, and on the promotion or justification of terrorism. In the United States more than in Europe, during the Cold War, such restrictions applied to Communists. Now they are more commonly applied to organizations perceived as promoting terrorism or the incitement of group hatred. Examples include anti-terrorism legislation, the shutting down of Hezbollah satellite broadcasts, and some laws against hate speech. Critics claim that these limitations may go too far and that there may be no due and fair judicial process.

    The common justification for these limits is that they are necessary to guarantee the existence of democracy, or the existence of the freedoms themselves. For example, allowing free speech for those advocating mass murder undermines the right to life and security. Opinion is divided on how far democracy can extend to include the enemies of democracy in the democratic process. If relatively small numbers of people are excluded from such freedoms for these reasons, a country may still be seen as a liberal democracy. Some argue that this is only quantitatively (not qualitatively) different from autocracies that persecute opponents, since only a small number of people are affected and the restrictions are less severe. Others emphasize that democracies are different. At least in theory, opponents of democracy are also allowed due process under the rule of law. In principle, democracies allow criticism and change of the leaders and the political and economic system itself; it is only attempts to do so violently and the promotion of such violence that is prohibited.

    However, many governments considered to be democratic have restrictions upon expressions considered anti-democratic, such as Holocaust denial and hate speech. Members of political organizations with connections to prior totalitarianism (typically communist, fascist, and Nazi) parties prohibited and current or former members of such organizations may be deprived of the vote and the privilege of holding certain jobs. Discriminatory behavior may be prohibited, such as refusal by owners of public accommodations to serve persons on grounds of race, religion, ethnicity, gender, or sexual orientation.

    Other rights considered fundamental in one country may be foreign to other governments. For instance, the constitutions of Canada, India, Israel, Mexico and the United State guarantee freedom from double jeopardy, a right not provided in other legal systems. Similarly, many Americans consider gun rights to be important, while other countries do not recognize them as fundamental rights.
    No mention of socialism..

  9. #19
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pitseleh View Post
    More like the Scandinavian countries then?
    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    How so? OK.. It's a two party system and they both look a lot alike.. But other than that, it's a pretty good representation. It is home to most free citizens on the planet.. If, freedom is defined by choice, as it is, politically and economically.
    No proportional representation. No referendums. No direct voting for many important offices. No run-offs or preferential ballots. Far too little regulation of the interaction between political campaigns and corporate funding. Far too little regulation of the interaction between political campaigns and mass media. A an exceptionally low level of civic literacy amongst the masses, a high level of economic inequality (deny it all you want, that correlates to a less functional republic), etc, etc, etc...

    Yes, you can give me the definition of a liberal democracy, and I can acknowledge that the USA fits. It does not, however, necessarily perform as well as other liberal democracies. I think our representative system is becoming more sickly all the time, and it's already fallen behind most of the first world.
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  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    No proportional representation. No referendums. No direct voting for many important offices. No run-offs or preferential ballots. Far too little regulation of the interaction between political campaigns and corporate funding. Far too little regulation of the interaction between political campaigns and mass media. A an exceptionally low level of civic literacy amongst the masses, a high level of economic inequality (deny it all you want, that correlates to a less functional republic), etc, etc, etc...

    Yes, you can give me the definition of a liberal democracy, and I can acknowledge that the USA fits. It does not, however, necessarily perform as well as other liberal democracies. I think our representative system is becoming more sickly all the time, and it's already fallen behind most of the first world.
    OK.. I will not disagree with any of what you are saying.

    But you can have peace or freedom.. You can't have both.. They are fundamentally polar opposites .. The USA sacrifices some peace in the name of freedom. Canada sacrifices some freedoms in the name of peace. I am not sure one really qualifies as better over the other.
    I understand some of these countries have better standards of living.. But Why then, does everyone want to live in the USA?

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