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  1. #161
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    @Rep.. The people who use the slogan "Pure Laine" were the duly elected Government of Quebec at the time.
    The pro French movement The FLQ (Front de Liberation Du Quebec) , A convicted terrorist organization who kidnapped and murdered a politician, used the term and gave it it's modern popularity.
    It means, Pure Wool. You can make your own assumption as to what that entails.

    In order for a Duly elected Government to get into power with a slogan such as "Pure Wool" regularly tossed a round in it's rhetoric, the electorate must have some racist and xenophobic tendencies.

    In the last referendum on Quebec sovereignty. The Separatists lost narrow decision.
    The leader of the Separatists, who was also the premier of Quebec stated publicly is his defeat speech.

    "The reason we lost my friends , is because of money and the ethnic vote, democracy has not been served"

    Political analysts all agree what he meant was Money= The English and the Ethnic = Immigrants.
    It was also determined that what he meant by democracy not being served is that if the vote was held amongst the "Pure Laine" only.
    He would have achieved victory. He in essence called non French people false citizens of their land and suggested that, the next time there is a referendum, they should not be included in the vote .
    The irony is The French or Pure Laine population comprises of well over 70% of the whole population, whilst over 80% of it's citizens speak fluent French.

    Even a Vote Held amongst those of only Pure Laine Descent might not have yielded the victory.

    There were also a disproportionate amount of votes declared "spoiled and invalid" in predominantly English speaking areas.
    Almost all of them were clearly votes against separation. In some areas the "spoiled" votes were as high as 11% compared 1.7% in other elections .

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_and_the_ethnic_vote

  2. #162
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redScorpion View Post
    Well said. We need more "normal" people like you in threads.
    Cool to read that.

    Also, as a libertarian myself I think that racism is not a crime since it is not traduced in actual agressives actions. The Front National is populist and demagogic, but not fascist and not more dangerous than was the 1980s Parti Communiste Français of Georges Marchais.
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  3. #163
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    while white leftist bourgeois like Blackmail live a more secured lifestyle and can be bllind and hypocrit about the gravity of the situation easily.
    I was wondering if there was a link between you and RS. Same incredible pretensiousness, same "hyper virile" self-image, same political tastes, same misogyny... It seems I had a good intuition after all.

    But frankly: frustrated, insecure teens that try to advertise a white supremacist site aren't exactly "normal people". They're just frustrated, insecure, angry teens: that's the awful truth they try to hide.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  4. #164
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    So pretty much the small French community ideologically is split. rS and SG vs. blackmail! and eck. Interesting.

  5. #165
    Cheeseburgers freeeekyyy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Right-O.



    So what do you define as economically liberal?
    Free markets. When referring to economics, the classical definition of the word liberal is more commonly accepted and used than in political discussions.


    Also, to the OP: Ruling with an iron fist doesn't make people respect the law. Having a respectable system makes people respect the law. People in the US don't respect the law because the law isn't respectable. When the law-makers are corrupt themselves, it makes it a lot harder to take them seriously.
    You lose.

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  6. #166
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    Cool to read that.

    Also, as a libertarian myself I think that racism is not a crime since it is not traduced in actual agressives actions.
    So you ackowledge that RS is racist??? Interesting.
    Spreading hateful lies is not an "actual agressive action"? Do you mean that those who listen those speeches and do what they suggest are more responsible that those who write those hate speeches?

    The Front National is populist and demagogic, but not fascist
    Ask historians about that. Do you really know what the term "fascist" means, by the way?

    not more dangerous than was the 1980s Parti Communiste Français of Georges Marchais.
    Huh?

    -----

    Are you trying to evade the issue by blaming the extreme Left, since your sympathies go to the other side?

    Pathetic.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    So you ackowledge that RS is racist??? Interesting.
    Spreading hateful lies is not an "actual agressive action"? Do you mean that those who listen those speeches and do what they suggest are more responsible that those who write those hate speeches?


    Ask historians about that. Do you really know what the term "fascist" means, by the way?



    Huh?

    -----

    Are you trying to evade the issue by blaming the extreme Left, since your sympathies go to the other side?

    Pathetic.
    You could answer my question about your support for the Parti Quebecois and the FLQ in my country, meanwhile attacking the same sort of behavior in your country.

  8. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    I was wondering if there was a link between you and RS. Same incredible pretensiousness, same "hyper virile" self-image, same political tastes, same misogyny... It seems I had a good intuition after all.

    But frankly: frustrated, insecure teens that try to advertise a white supremacist site aren't exactly "normal people". They're just frustrated, insecure, angry teens: that's the awful truth they try to hide.
    I'm not a white supremacist, fdesouche is the first political blog in France, and as I love politics, I "have" to read it, like any serious French journalist.

    And Gavroche looks more open-minded and smart than you.

    I'm personally not ashamed of what I think, and therefore to saying it. It's not trying to give a "hyper-virile" image of myself, it's just how I am.
    And a lot of people think like I do, not everybody are feminist, leftist and naive.


    Quote Originally Posted by freeeekyyy View Post
    Also, to the OP: Ruling with an iron fist doesn't make people respect the law. Having a respectable system makes people respect the law. People in the US don't respect the law because the law isn't respectable. When the law-makers are corrupt themselves, it makes it a lot harder to take them seriously.
    That may be true.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    So you ackowledge that RS is racist??? Interesting.
    Spreading hateful lies is not an "actual agressive action"? Do you mean that those who listen those speeches and do what they suggest are more responsible that those who write those hate speeches?
    People are free to think that elephants flies or that blacks are inferior. People are free, justice is only coming (or should only come) when physical agressions are taken.


    Ask historians about that. Do you really know what the term "fascist" means, by the way?
    It's not fascist. Open some history books please.

    Huh?
    Yup its almost the same program than the current FN.

  9. #169
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    So you ackowledge that RS is racist???
    RS does'nt seem racist to me .

    Interesting.
    Spreading hateful lies is not an "actual agressive action"? Do you mean that those who listen those speeches and do what they suggest are more responsible that those who write those hate speeches?
    People are free to express what they think, that's all. But can't engage actual agressive action, directly or indirectly.

    Ask historians about that. Do you really know what the term "fascist" means, by the way?
    Apparently, it's someone who disagrees with you.

    Huh?
    It's almost the same program, as RS put it. And also the same electorate. That means that a too strong part of the french working class is statist and xenophobic, but not fascist.

    -----

    Are you trying to evade the issue by blaming the extreme Left, since your sympathies go to the other side?

    Pathetic.
    I said that the FN is populist and demagogic, but I'am a sympathiser, interesting. People are not divided in two strict camps. Anyone who is not with you is against you in you mentality, right?

    Oh, BTW, I never read FDS, waste of time. And I can be masculine and feminine, macho and coketish, it depends. I'm not misogygn, most part of women are smarter and more enjoyable compagny than you, just consider that being pretentious to someone who is obviously pretentious and narcissist is a delightful pleasure.
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    "Stereotypes about personality and gender turn out to be fairly accurate: ... On the binary Myers-Briggs measure, the thinking-feeling breakdown is about 30/70 for women versus 60/40 for men." ~ Bryan Caplan

  10. #170
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Neo-liberalism is the economic orthodoxy, I believe because the banks and wealthy are more powerful than any single state or other constituency, therefore all economies must, ultimately, do their bidding, protect and serve their interests.

    No state can exercise control, not even moderate regulation and not even when they have majority shares in the same financial institutions, the fall out of the bankers crisis and recession are evidence enough of that.

    In the UK the state privatised the central bank, the principal economic manager, and even it has said that the banks are behaving in ways which are contrary to their own interests and survival, the response from the banks was a protest that they had undertaken radical change since the recession but honestly they have not changed in any way other than supposed organisational or business culture and that is incredibly difficult to gauge or measure or judge.

    There are no non-governmental or supranational regulators either, no sans frontiers unions or international fiscal controllers, such as the IMF, WTO or World Bank, which isnt operating to the same neo-liberal orthodoxy.

    Now the differences between democracy and dictatorship I would suggest are largely cultural, as there are political patterns and processes shared by each which resemble one another. The countries in which political upheavels and modernisation reproduced similar regimes with different window dressing only prove the indelible mark of tradition. So Stalinism resembled Czarism in all but rehetoric.

    Another example of convergence is most of the political democracies around the world have come to resemble dynastic rule in their own ways and some nations positively encourage or support it, such was and is the reception of successive family presidencies in the US for instance, like the Bush family or Clintons.

    However the cultural differences are still important, the popluations of democracies can be authoritarian and support as serious authoritarianism as those in dictatorships but they also enjoy greater freedoms in fundamental and real ways provided they dont threaten the economic orthodoxy. So you can access as much pornography and argue most vehemently in favour of this or that sexual behaviour being accepted as the norm without repercussions which you may experience elsewhere. Although in either case concerted action which threatened to provoke the desertion of investment or bankers would be treated the same way ultimatley, although tactics may differ.

    I see all these trends as leading to greater outbursts of market libertarianism, people are cynical and disillusioned with government, particularly the vindication of the peter principle and managerialism which it obviously represents, and they most cherish the freedom to buy which the market place offers them.

    Ultimately it wont alter things, the neo-liberal politicians will protect and serve the bankers or wealthy for their share, act in ways coherent with their ideology and resort to power politics when it fails in practice. I just have no idea what will happen when capitalism and market libertarianism finally have their 1989, truly I dont and whether that advent will be too late because the resources will be spent. War drums, bad religion, some sort of slumquake, it could all be on the cards.

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