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  1. #1
    Senior Member Perch420's Avatar
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    Default Race and intelligence.

    This is an uncomfortable topic for me to discuss because it's highly taboo in our society. I would encourage everyone to be civil and to not resort to name calling or anything of that sort.

    Human races are basically an extension of a person's family. Meaning that, through inbreeding, certain traits became more prominent and through natural selection, some were weeded out and some remained in the gene pool. Look at dog breeds; even though they are all part of the same species, each dog breed has its own temperament and level of intelligence. I don't think this can be ascribed to simply environment; there's something else at play here.

    Why can't this also apply to humans? The Africans who left their homeland were exposed to much more evolutionary stress than those that stayed behind. The unintelligent and uncreative were culled out. I don't want to believe this; I'd much rather think that all human beings are equal, but I can't stop doubting the philosophy of racial equality taught to us at school.

    Asians and Jews have a higher IQ on average. Why is that? Is it due singlehandedly to culture? Unfortunately, there is a much more logical explanation; a tradition of planned marriages in both these communities led to a sort of inadvertent eugenics being implemented.

    This is possibly why people of African descent are more athletic; the stresses of the Savannah meant if you weren't fit, you couldn't catch food, and therefore you died.

    Still, this seems to be a very rigid way of categorizing people. Neil DeGrasse Tyson and Dave Chappelle are both very intelligent black men, but both their parents were doctors and university professors, respectively. Could this be due to environment? Maybe, but some people, no matter how good of an environment you give them, will never top an IQ of 105.

    I've heard this line of reasoning being referred to as pseudoscience many times over, but nothing that the proponents of racial equality say is very convincing. I'm not 100% sure that what I said is true, but I think it's something to consider. We need genuine discussion over this issue instead of censorship and media lynching of anyone who has the audacity to question the status quo.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Nature & nurture can explain a great deal about an individual

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    Resident Snot-Nose GZA's Avatar
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    What you are saying is self-defeating due to your huge generalizations. The world is much more complicated.

    Africa isnt just a big Savannah, it has some very diverse and very harsh climates that certainly require creativity and ingenuity to survive in. Africa is also the most genetically diverse place in the world; apparently the various different ethnic groups of Africa are more different from eachother genetically than all the people from the rest of the world (because the rest of the world is descended from the same group that migrated out of Egypt so very long ago). At times in history it has also had some of the most advanced and educated civilizations in the world, if I am not mistaken. It sounds like you are finding reasons to support your theory rather than creating a theory based on evidence.

    I think the reason that questioning the status quo on race equality is unencouraged is because it is very, very dangerous. We as a human community are recovering from centuries of racism and colonization and exploitation that was justified by the logic that these people were inferior. To reopen the discussion on if they are inferior is just a terrible idea because all it could really amount to is more suffering and discrimination.

    We do not even have a consensus on what intelligence is and it can not truly be quantified. The conversation on who is smarter than who is going nowhere, especially with the dark past surrounding the debate.

    What is race even? It's not like when you walk across the world you reach a point where everyone's skin colour suddenly changes.

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    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GZA View Post
    I think the reason that questioning the status quo on race equality is unencouraged is because it is very, very dangerous.
    I'm no fan of thoughtcrime or racism, so what should I do?

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    Resident Snot-Nose GZA's Avatar
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    Just draw a zebra and it will all be ok

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    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    But there is already an elephant in the room

  8. #8
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    Originally posted by Perch420
    Human races are basically an extension of a person's family. Meaning that, through inbreeding, certain traits became more prominent and through natural selection, some were weeded out and some remained in the gene pool. Look at dog breeds; even though they are all part of the same species, each dog breed has its own temperament and level of intelligence. I don't think this can be ascribed to simply environment; there's something else at play here.

    Why can't this also apply to humans? The Africans who left their homeland were exposed to much more evolutionary stress than those that stayed behind. The unintelligent and uncreative were culled out. I don't want to believe this; I'd much rather think that all human beings are equal, but I can't stop doubting the philosophy of racial equality taught to us at school.
    Because human population are much much larger than other animal populations, groups of different races can carry different genes of every sort, and human populations of race tend to breed with each other as well.

    Asians and Jews have a higher IQ on average. Why is that? Is it due singlehandedly to culture? Unfortunately, there is a much more logical explanation; a tradition of planned marriages in both these communities led to a sort of inadvertent eugenics being implemented.

    This is possibly why people of African descent are more athletic; the stresses of the Savannah meant if you weren't fit, you couldn't catch food, and therefore you died.
    Proof? These are merely generalized conclusion that lack strong evidence, well at least in terms of intellect, as body types and structure can be traced to where people live.

    Still, this seems to be a very rigid way of categorizing people. Neil DeGrasse Tyson and Dave Chappelle are both very intelligent black men, but both their parents were doctors and university professors, respectively. Could this be due to environment? Maybe, but some people, no matter how good of an environment you give them, will never top an IQ of 105.
    Does it have to do with environment? I don't know what growing up was like for Dave or Neil, nor many other smart black people, so I cannot know for sure if thier environment played a crucial role in their intellectual development.

    I've heard this line of reasoning being referred to as pseudoscience many times over, but nothing that the proponents of racial equality say is very convincing. I'm not 100% sure that what I said is true, but I think it's something to consider. We need genuine discussion over this issue instead of censorship and media lynching of anyone who has the audacity to question the status quo.
    I don't entirely disagree with you, determining a correlation between race and intelligance is something worthy of consideration as much as determing correlation between different cultures and intelligence. Ignoring them for fear of invoking racial predjusices is nonsesnical.

  9. #9
    Tier 1 Member LunaLuminosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perch420 View Post
    Maybe, but some people, no matter how good of an environment you give them, will never top an IQ of 105.
    What is the point of this statement? What is wrong with not having an IQ of over 105?

    The problem that happens with these debates is that we are dealing with two tricky and ill-defined concepts: race and intelligence. Racial boundaries are kind of messy, and we still can't get people to agree on even a most general definition of intelligence. And please, before this gets out of hand, I'll send a reminder to you all to not even get close to using the terms IQ and intelligence interchangably

  10. #10
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Too lazy to address the entire opening post but felt I had to respond to the Asian point.

    How in the world would planned marriages make a difference considering that money/property, beauty and family name/honour were all that mattered? Yup, yup, got face, you smaht.

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