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  1. #71
    Senior Member Perch420's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    and this ladies in gentlemen is one of the reasons why racism and sexism still exists. there's retarded jews and retarded asians, there's also smart africans. I'm pretty retarded myself despite coming from a long line of intelligent people. I mean maybe it's because I'm from the south, must be the reason, how do I breathe? I'm too stupid to inhale oxygen and exhale carbon dioxide.
    What? Where did I ever say that people from the South are too stupid to breathe? Are you fucking serious? What are you talking about? Did you even read my thread or saw "race and intelligence" and typed up this garbage. Well, at least you got one thing right in your post; I'll let you guess what it is.

  2. #72
    Senior Member Perch420's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mkenya View Post
    I'm half black. Actually, I'm half African. I grew up in a country where the average IQ is reportedly in the low 70's.

    First things first...
    we are assuming that IQ equals intelligence. This is far from fact. What exactly is intelligence? Intelligence is a very subjective and ultimately (I think) an unknowable concept. So just based on that alone I can conclude that while I might have an IQ that is considered low it doesn't mean that I am in fact unintelligent. It just means that I have a low IQ. If I do have a low IQ it just means whatever IQ is in fact measuring (which is a whole other topic (with very interesting discussions)) I have a comparatively low amount of it.

    Now, assuming I do have a low IQ (which statistically speaking is probable, depending on the agreed upon terms) what does it matter? As long as I am happy, as long as I am successful, as long as I live life according to how I want to live it, I could have an IQ of 10 and die a successful man.

    Put another way..why have an IQ of 200 when you don't consider yourself successful? Or does having an IQ of 200 make you successful? (however you personally define that term). I guess those are questions you get to answer yourself..but I personally don't define myself by IQ.

    Growing up..competition in school was fierce. We were ranked. The person who had the highest grades was honored. There was certainly some pressure to do well in school..not because it was a good thing to do..just to prove yourself "better". I managed to get "good" grades, but not the "best". Yet..the average IQ of these people was borderline retarded? I have since come to the states...and I still manage to get "good" but not the "best" grades..yet the average IQ here is reportedly 2 standard deviations higher?

    To me it seems arbitrary to measure yourself by external concepts like IQ (or religion, or anything like that) because ultimately they are concepts (systems) defined and created by humans and are therefore ultimately flawed.

    So the question becomes one of "do I burden myself with trying to achieve a high IQ or (by extension) proving to myself and others that I am in fact intelligent?" or "do I burden myself with trying to make myself successful (whatever that means to me..)?"

    This question can be applied in so many different ways...
    "Do I let IQ/Religion/Race/Democracy/MBTI/Science etc etc define who I am?" or "Do I let those systems make suggestions?"
    "Am I defined by how others see me?" or "Am I me...(even if I can't understand me)...and those systems are just attempts to define me?"

    Good post. I guess the real issue here is that genetics is so crucial to the human world but also so frail and vulnerable to all sorts of problems. Is it wrong for someone with a 100% chance inheritable disease to reproduce? Why? Because it hurts the offspring, right? Is it wrong for someone of below average intelligence to reproduce? But a low intelligence is also detrimental? What are the answers to these questions? We value life so much but the reality is that it's arbitrary and often imperfect, regardless of race, nationality, or anything of that nature. I don't think it's ever possible to find answers to these questions.

  3. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by Perch420 View Post
    I've heard this line of reasoning being referred to as pseudoscience many times over, but nothing that the proponents of racial equality say is very convincing. I'm not 100% sure that what I said is true, but I think it's something to consider. We need genuine discussion over this issue instead of censorship and media lynching of anyone who has the audacity to question the status quo.
    But you have been describing a single race, there is only one human race, there are different ethnic groups who I would accept have borne the rigors of historical experience differently and consequently been shaped differently, some with more or less of an ethno-nationalist consciousness or politics too but they remain part of the same race.

    Comparisons with the animal kingdom are not good ones to make but even in the instances of dog breeding you mention there are terrible consequences of the lack of genetic diversity in the form of birth defects or malformities. I dont have any links but I heard a news story on the radio recently about terrible consequences of breeding programmes, I think it was at the same time as one of the posh dog shows, it involved things like dogs born without eyes.

    The same thing happens in communities which seriously lack genetic diversity, all the popular myths and hollywood spin about inbreed cannibalistic hillbillies are like a reflection of ancestoral memory or historical experience if you ask me. At the genetic level the consequences of infidelity and promiscuity is even felt by individuals who with no formal familial tie, at the genetic level are as good as kinfolk. The results in birth defects, learning or physical disabilities are evident too.

    Yet its often people like that who will argue the most forcefully against immigration which could supply the much needed genetic diversity to prevent further degeneration. I think it is possible at some point that there will not be the diversity needed to prevent birth defects, perhaps gene therapy will have developed by then or something else will have happened. Otherwise the human race has an expiration date.

    I do think that topics like this shouldnt be beyond the pale, there should be dialogue were it is possible and I do think that there has been a bias in the anti-racism discourse which has sometimes left white europeans or people of that ancestory totally surprised when they are the victim of racism themselves or can not define an ethnic heritage or identity without shame or guilt as others are able to. The sad thing is that when that happens often the same surprised or shamed individuals will gravitate towards genuinely racist, sinister or just damn fool sources for solace.

  4. #74
    Senior Member Perch420's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Why has this forum turned into IgnoranceCentral recently?
    Whoah, slow the fuck down there, Oscar Wilde. Take care not to kill us out of laughter.

  5. #75
    Senior Member Perch420's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    It's the suggestion, as the OP was wont to make clear, that perhaps it's true that certain races are genetically incapable (meaning, regardless of nurture) of surpassing certain IQ levels (for whatever cockamamie, pseudo-scientific, socio-biological explanation) that is patently offensive. And why is it offensive? Because it's pure racism.
    So something is offensive because it's racist, and therefore offensive? Wow, that's truly some great logic. Especially since I don't even believe in those "offensive" things, I just brought them up for discussion.

  6. #76
    Senior Member Perch420's Avatar
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    This should really be more of a discussion about genetics and genetic ethics than race.

  7. #77
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perch420 View Post
    This should really be more of a discussion about genetics and genetic ethics than race.
    It already is

  8. #78
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perch420 View Post
    Whoah, slow the fuck down there, Oscar Wilde. Take care not to kill us out of laughter.
    Well if I don't, then I'm sure your stupid Kebab video will.

    Quote Originally Posted by Perch420 View Post
    So something is offensive because it's racist, and therefore offensive? Wow, that's truly some great logic. Especially since I don't even believe in those "offensive" things, I just brought them up for discussion.
    Are you an idiot? Racism is offensive. If something is racist, then it is offensive. Or is that too difficult for you to follow?
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  9. #79
    Superwoman Red Herring's Avatar
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    In the immortal words of John Kerry:

    ""We should consider" a number of these things. We did consider them. I considered them. Others did. I rejected them. "

    (when asked about his previous stance that a raise of the retirement cap "should be considered" and later rejection of that idea)
    The good life is one inspired by love and guided by knowledge. Neither love without knowledge, nor knowledge without love can produce a good life. - Bertrand Russell
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  10. #80
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Are you an idiot? Racism is offensive. If something is racist, then it is offensive. Or is that too difficult for you to follow?
    I suggest you avoid sickle-cell anemia, Orangey. It's racist, as are alpha and beta thalassemia.

    Damned racist diseases...

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