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  1. #91
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    In the immortal words of John Kerry:

    ""We should consider" a number of these things. We did consider them. I considered them. Others did. I rejected them. "
    Seriously.

    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    I suggest you avoid sickle-cell anemia, Orangey. It's racist, as are alpha and beta thalassemia.

    Damned racist diseases...


    I'll just quote Red Herring on this one.

    I'll add that I never said discussion of FACTS is "wrong," just that theories which have, broadly speaking, been the subject of study for centuries and have been shown over and over to be complete bullshit (and arguably, because of our focus on it, damaging to certain groups of people) are free to be labeled as what they are; racist bullshit. Why don't you read a book? Here's something to start with. It's not subversive to repeat bullshit and then cry about "PC this, PC that" when it's called what it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    In other words, Africans have a high rate of these anormalies not because they belong to the "African race" but because the African continent is part of the worldwide net of malaria regions that almost all show this anormaly. It's not their "blackness" that causes these deseases, it's their "malarianess"! In this case, skin color is a red herring!

    How do you connect the theory that there is a correlation between "race" and "intelligence" (two incredibly fuzzy and complex concepts) with the prevalence of an anti-malaria mutation in malaria regions that is apparently dependent on local climate and/or malaria threat rather than skin color/ethnicity/race?

    Isn't this comparing apples and pears?



    What about Rh blood groups?

    Population data for the Rh D factor and the RhD neg allele
    Population Rh(D) Neg Rh(D) Pos Rh(D) Neg alleles
    European Basque approx 35% 65% approx 60%
    other Europeans 16% 84% 40%
    African American approx 7% 93% approx 26%
    Native Americans approx 1% 99% approx 10%
    African descent less 1% over 99% 3%
    Asian less 1% over 99% 1%

    Does this mean that Basques are a race of their own? Actually, come to think of it, there are a few Basque nationalists who argue like that.
    Call ETA! We might be on to something here!!!
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  2. #92
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post


    I'll just quote Red Herring on this one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    In other words, Africans have a high rate of these anormalies not because they belong to the "African race" but because the African continent is part of the worldwide net of malaria regions that almost all show this anormaly. It's not their "blackness" that causes these deseases, it's their "malarianess"! In this case, skin color is a red herring!
    Pardon me for saying so, but... duh. Of course skin color has no bearing on the genetics that contribute to sickle-cell anemia. What kind of moron would believe that people get a disease just because they're black? Or white? Or whatever?

    Is that what you think people are proposing? That there are Klansmen idiots on here stupid enough to think that a genetic condition like sickle-cell "looks" at someone and says "Oh, this guy's white, he gets a pass"?!? How exactly is that process supposed to work?

    No. All that's going on is that people are thinking about looking for correlations (and in the process badly violating a number of post-modern societal taboos, which is the real issue IMHO).

    It would help if we had the capability of using more precise terminology that specifically identifies genetically linked groups, and checked for correlations not to anything so nebulous as "Intelligence," but to something specific like performance on "XYZ spatial aptitude assessment" administered under controlled conditions.

    Maybe that would spare some of the forum members from being labeled as racists unnecessarily. It's truly a damned dirty accusation to make, especially against people you don't even know.

  3. #93
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    Pardon me for saying so, but... duh. Of course skin color has no bearing on the genetics that contribute to sickle-cell anemia. What kind of moron would believe that people get a disease just because they're black? Or white? Or whatever?

    Is that what you think people are proposing? That there are Klansmen idiots on here stupid enough to think that a genetic condition like sickle-cell "looks" at someone and says "Oh, this guy's white, he gets a pass"?!? How exactly is that process supposed to work?

    No. All that's going on is that people are thinking about looking for correlations (and in the process badly violating a number of post-modern societal taboos, which is the real issue IMHO).

    It would help if we had the capability of using more precise terminology that specifically identifies genetically linked groups, and checked for correlations not to anything so nebulous as "Intelligence," but to something specific like performance on "XYZ spatial aptitude assessment" administered under controlled conditions.

    Maybe that would spare some of the forum members from being labeled as racists unnecessarily. It's truly a damned dirty accusation to make, especially against people you don't even know.
    You really need to get a grip on your need to defend every reactionary thought just because it's "soooo not something the PC police are going to like so any opposition is just a sign of their oppressive policing." If you had read and understood the OP properly, you would have known that he did not only propose that we discuss "correlations," he stipulated that it should be within the confines of linking IQ scores to "race" genetically. Because, in comparing human races to breeds of dog, "even though they are all part of the same species, each dog breed has its own temperament and level of intelligence."

    Also, if you had actually read and understood MY posts, you'd know that I did not call him racist (I don't even know him), I merely stated that the original post contains racist claptrap (which, let's be honest, it does.) If I say something racist and I'm called on it, it doesn't necessarily make me a racist. Why can't you make that distinction?
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  4. #94
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    You really need to get a grip on your need to defend every reactionary thought just because it's "soooo not something the PC police are going to like so any opposition is just a sign of their oppressive policing." If you had read and understood the OP properly, you would have known that he did not only propose that we discuss "correlations," he stipulated that it should be within the confines of linking IQ scores to "race" genetically. Because, in comparing human races to breeds of dog, "even though they are all part of the same species, each dog breed has its own temperament and level of intelligence."

    Also, if you had actually read and understood MY posts, you'd know that I did not call him racist (I don't even know him), I merely stated that the original post contains racist claptrap (which, let's be honest, it does.) If I say something racist and I'm called on it, it doesn't necessarily make me a racist. Why can't you make that distinction?
    Speaking of defending every reactionary thought...

    With regard to the bolded, I didn't make that distinction because I wasn't aware that you were making it. It seems silly on its face; how many times does one have to say racist things to be a racist? For comparison, how many times does one have to lie to be a liar?

    The OP is screwed. I'm trying to modify the premise to something reasonable, if not worthwhile. I can see that it's a failing effort, because passions run too high around any discussion even touching on the topic of race. Enjoy your carefully-crafted sense of self-justification.

  5. #95
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    The OP is screwed. I'm trying to modify the premise to something reasonable, if not worthwhile. I can see that it's a failing effort, because passions run too high around any discussion even touching on the topic of race. Enjoy your carefully-crafted sense of self-justification.
    Pfft.

    No you're not. You've never once suggested that we discuss something else. All you've done is whine about how "we can't even talk about race, because the PC police will shut us all down, orthodoxy this, orthodoxy that," just like you're doing now. Seriously all you've done is try to call me out for being one of those people who rabidly shouts "racism" every time the topic of race is brought up at all, which I'm not, and which I've repeatedly had to tell you is not the case in this thread. You're so paranoid about these PC police that it's made you trigger happy; every time someone dares to criticize something on the basis that it's racist, sexist, or whatever else is in your list of things to hone in on, you show up and whine about how free speech is being lost without even considering if the claim is true or not. Which is ironic since you were the only person suggesting that this thread be stopped.

    If anything, Beargryllz and a couple of people a few pages back had already changed the topic to something more reasonable. But then the OP came back, I responded, and then you came back to cleverly point out that if I think the OP is racist, then I must think sickle-cell anemia is racist, too (which was cringe worthy BTW.) So no, if anything, you've kept us right on the original topic which you claim to be so above.
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  6. #96
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Pfft.

    No you're not. You've never once suggested that we discuss something else. All you've done is whine about how "we can't even talk about race, because the PC police will shut us all down, orthodoxy this, orthodoxy that," just like you're doing now. Seriously all you've done is try to call me out for being one of those people who rabidly shouts "racism" every time the topic of race is brought up at all, which I'm not, and which I've repeatedly had to tell you is not the case in this thread. You're so paranoid about these PC police that it's made you trigger happy; every time someone dares to criticize something on the basis that it's racist, sexist, or whatever else is in your list of things to hone in on, you show up and whine about how free speech is being lost without even considering if the claim is true or not. Which is ironic since you were the only person suggesting that this thread be stopped.

    If anything, Beargryllz and a couple of people a few pages back had already changed the topic to something more reasonable. But then the OP came back, I responded, and then you came back to cleverly point out that if I think the OP is racist, then I must think sickle-cell anemia is racist, too (which was cringe worthy BTW.) So no, if anything, you've kept us right on the original topic which you claim to be so above.
    You win.

  7. #97
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    You win.
    I know.
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  8. #98

    Default the human race

    i thought we were the same race, homo sapiens sapiens. so instead of being different races, we are different ethnicities. and ethnicity is a cultural constraint.

  9. #99
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Isnt racing more about skill than intelligence ? Well I think to become really great at it you prolly need some of both
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  10. #100
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    how do you even use an IQ test accuratley on a population where even a high school education is less common and the literacy rate is spotty?

    environment has A LOT to say about how test scores go...

    not to mention testing anxiety in populations that feel more like they have something riding on test scores... while a lot of upper class people know that they are going to a good college no matter what thanks to comfortable finances (GW Bush anyone?) a lot of poorer people KNOW that they have to score well to get anywhere in life and that anxiety can negatively effect test scores as well
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

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