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  1. #11
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Here's the thing, though: he's a criminal. Paying a prostitute for sex is an actual-factual crime, isn't it?

    I felt differently about Clinton/Lewinsky because that was just old-fashioned adultery and nobody's business IMO. I didn't LIKE it or admire him for it, but it didn't seem relevant to his service in the way that this is. I don't think it's a good policy to allow our elected officials to get away with criminal activity, whether vice crimes or otherwise. Like it or not, when you're in a position of power you're expected to adhere yourself to the laws you enforce/enact for others.
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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Here's the thing, though: he's a criminal. Paying a prostitute for sex is an actual-factual crime, isn't it?

    I felt differently about Clinton/Lewinsky because that was just old-fashioned adultery and nobody's business IMO. I didn't LIKE it or admire him for it, but it didn't seem relevant to his service in the way that this is. I don't think it's a good policy to allow our elected officials to get away with criminal activity, whether vice crimes or otherwise. Like it or not, when you're in a position of power you're expected to adhere yourself to the laws you enforce/enact for others.
    Yes, its a felony... according to the coverage I saw.

    On Clinton it wasn't the sex... he lied to the Grand Jury.... no debate on what is is.

  3. #13
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    Ivy has a good point about the criminal activity.

    Also, whatever someone has done in the past is one thing, but if current cops do any illegal drugs and still arrest other people for doing the same thing, they are not only hypocrites but they are in direct violation of their positions of authority.

    Elected officials are held to higher standards than the public. Generally you don't want any shmuck being in charge of you. And basically, public officials are in charge of you -- they make decisions that affect your income, your taxes, your health care, your education, your rights, and your general quality of life.

    Even people running on the platform that they are 'an everyday person just liek you' either really aren't everyday people (too priveleged, too part of the political machine) or else they run on nostalgia or a reform ticket. Like Mr. Smith Goes To Washington.

    No public figure, elected official, officer of the court, or officer of the law should feel like they are above the law.

    And in direct response to the OP, of course he's gonna be skinned alive. He is a failure, a hypocrite, a liar, and abusing his position of authority. He probably assumed he was above being caught because of the contract he has with the people. I guess it seems very obvious and fair to me. If he was a very progressive leftist (unlikely, but humor me) and vocally for the legalization of prostitution, this would get a lot of press but he could get through it just fine and probably garner more support.

    But this Mr. Clean in question. No one put a gun to his head and made him run on an anti-crime platform. Regardless of who is responsible for starting the image of Mr. Clean, he obviously wasn't arguing with the title and most likely hyping up such an image. By making that his big ticket, he forfeits his rights to public favor by basically 'betraying' public trust and showing himself to be a hypocrite and failure. He can't even meet his own standards?

    Now, he may have a shot a redemption. Politics is such a human game, and people also love stories of people who rise and fall and rise again. If he grovels enough and gets the right spin, people may see him as a 'truly human' and humble individual who's worthy of a second shot.

    I think this story is different from Marion Barry in DC though, because I don't think the majority of the public was ever really against him. Or at least there was a large enough percentage of people who didn't care about his druge use.

    This story IS similar however Representative Ed Shrock, a conservative Republican repping Virginia, he was a co-sponsor of the Federal Marriage Amendment which you know, would make 'gay marriage' not just illegal, but unconstitutional. He was considered extremely conservative and yeah, anti-gay.

    And he had to resign after evidence was leaked of him 'cruising for gay sex'. Hahahaha.

    See, not only is he a hypocrite, but his own constituents hate gays. His credibility is shot and it's doubtful he'll turn around his homophobic conservative constituents to his side. And, even though he may be undercover gay himself, it doesn't mean he supports gays. His opponents will be after him regrdless. He's just totally screwed.

    And let's not get started on Larry Craig.

    Oh, and you can also say it might not be public opinion that's the downfall of 'lapsed politicians' but their own parties. People don't want to run with a sick horse or an obvious target for their opponents.
    “If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.” ― Oscar Wilde

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  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post

    Now, he may have a shot a redemption. Politics is such a human game, and people also love stories of people who rise and fall and rise again. If he grovels enough and gets the right spin, people may see him as a 'truly human' and humble individual who's worthy of a second shot.
    Exactly! He's already feigning humility... yeh, right... and the "machine" I referred to earlier has already gone into high gear... the Clintons have a powerful one and he's hurt them... they have to do damage control. What gets me is why people fall for it.

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  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    Everyone is a hypocrite. People in power don't get there by being nice guys. And if they do, they don't stay long.

    And I can't believe that he wouldn't be attacked for this if he hadn't focused on crime fighting.

    There's a ton of cops out there who have smoked marijuana but that doesn't keep them from arresting people for it.
    I don't consider myself a hypocrite, and I plan on being fairly powerful within my chosen field. The problem here is that politics tends to attract particularly egregious examples of the bad examples. Lying is de rigueur. The lure of the power is also strong, whether the person simply wants to be in charge, is crooked and wants to enrich himself/herself, or even genuinely wants to change things for the better (often, these types do the most damage, often unwittingly). I am willing to be that Eliot Spitzer HONESTLY thought he was doing the right thing by breaking up prostitution rings, and probably never considered what he was doing to be a serious crime, even though he prosecuted them as such. That is still a horrible sign of skewed values and a lack of perspective that is scary, given his position. And he was also a really smug bastard, too.

    P.S. For someone like me (going into the entertainment industry) to call politics a dirty business, it says something. Some of the worst people I know work for city and county government in SE Pennsylvania.
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  7. #17
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    That being said, prostitution by consenting adults should be legal.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    Everyone is a hypocrite. People in power don't get there by being nice guys. And if they do, they don't stay long.
    Yes, this is true.

    He must have really ticked someone off for them to yank his chain like this. Maybe he wasn't obeying his orders that well. They ALL have chains that can be yanked at any given time.


    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    That being said, prostitution by consenting adults should be legal.
    If they did that, then how would the powerful rein each other in when they needed to? They have to have something to hold over each other. Vices work best and vices need to be held in contempt by society at large for this to work.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    Yes, this is true.

    He must have really ticked someone off for them to yank his chain like this. Maybe he wasn't obeying his orders that well. They ALL have chains that can be yanked at any given time.




    If they did that, then how would the powerful rein each other in when they needed to? They have to have something to hold over each other. Vices work best and vices need to be held in contempt by society at large for this to work.
    We could try freedom?
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    We could try freedom?

    Well, it is not really up to us how such things are really done, is it?

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