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  1. #31
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    That would be too logical, Beargryllz.

    "That is merely logic. People are not moved by logic."
    Someone out there needs to try a lot harder to try to move me then. Clearly the effort is insufficient, and I am entitled to a valid argument derived from something else.

  2. #32
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Like what? Mexico has been dysfunctional for quite some time. Legalization is not going to bring an end to the gangs, no more than legalizing alcohol brought an end to the mafia.
    It won't bring an end to gangs, but it would reduce their income. Do I need to explain in detail how a reduction in income would lower the appeal of joining a cartel, how it would reduce bribery (and therefore corruption in the Mexican and US governments), and how it would make it more difficult for cartels to arm themselves?

    P.S. Ending alcohol prohibition didn't eliminate violence, but it did reduce violence.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  3. #33
    Honor Thy Inferior Such Irony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savage Idealist View Post

    Now currently in the U.S. many people are sitting in prison for drug related offenses; smoking pot and or other drugs can get people locked up for a significant amount of time, and this large number of arrested people uses up a lot of tax payer money. Not to mention, it's just plainly cruel knowing how otherwise innocent people are suffereing the horrosr of prison.
    This can aslo be said og many other drugs as well, pot just being one of the biggest and most safest of all drugs.
    This is just one of the many things that's wrong with US society. Pot users are only harming themselves. Locking them up for long periods of time makes no sense at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Savage Idealist View Post
    Not having to send pot smokers to prison would certainly increase the well being of their lives. Personally I find it disgusting how pot smokers can be placed behind bars with murders and rapists, where they will get beaten and raped adn then once released have to suffer the socail stigma of being a criminal, which makes it difficult for them to find jobs.
    I totally agree! Using pot isn't going to make you evil or violent. So someone likes to get high on pot now and then? That's their perogative. As long as they don't smoke pot on the job, if they are otherwise competent and intelligent, I'd hire them.
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  4. #34
    Another awesome member. Curator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    Stop focusing on the violence and start focusing on the potential commodity. Ask, in a capitalist society, why would anyone punish someone for capitalizing on a plant?

    And what is all this about organized crime? We can't just use the stacking dead as an argument for legalization, because it would appear that we are bowing to a threat. We can also surely be civilized and avoid murdering citizens for their relatively harmless activities.

    I just don't understand it at all.
    The stacking dead are actually entirely BECAUSE of the value of drugs, they are illegal, so this raised the value as it became dangerous to supply the demand, as the value increased, the importance of protecting their investments and revenue stream increased, which increased the violence used to protect them and to fight competition, with innocents often in the middle...

    It seems to me there are many good reasons to legalize, in countries where casual use is permitted there are statistically less habitual users within the teen population, at least According to NORML and other similar organizations, I have not independently verified their statistics so I cant be sure, but it makes sense to me, most teen drug use ive seen has started as a form of rebellion...

    Then there is the bodies stacking up argument, all the people who die every year just because of how much the illegal drugs are worth, which is entirely because they are illegal and dangerous to produce/provide.

    and then there is the economic argument, it wont make much profit after the prices fall, however the average person will be paying taxable money to a business in the u.s. rather than an un-taxable criminal organization, or or produce it their self and save money they can spend on other taxable items...

    and then theres the Libertarian argument, the one that basically says "as long as we arent hurting anybody but ourselves, the government has no right to tell us what to do."

    Of course these are all condensed, but the point im attempting to make, is that ALL of the arguments need to be made, they cant concentrate on one or two, all must be shown and discussed in the public arena so people can see all the real pro's to legalization instead of just the misguided propaganda thats been around for 50+ years... all the commercials in california last year concentrating on the economic benefits are what kept it from passing, sure it swayed some people, but most would have been swayed by the more emotional arguments, and others by the scientific studies (including ones that adults who smoke a lot habitually lose IQ/cognitive ability as is commonly thought, however it quickly returns to their previous levels after quitting, at least with pot.) no single argument will sway enough of the public to get this done...

  5. #35
    Senior Member Sparrow's Avatar
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    I love Seattle <3

    I dont know why people are so anti Mary Jane, people seem to be brainwashed in to thinking its so horrid....alcohol and cigarettes are definitely more dangerous and also have no medical value. In the headlines do you ever hear of Stoned drivers killing people on the road lol?!

    Law makers in Washington state are pushing for legalization of Marijuana right now, Seattleites get out there and vote !


    Check out this article:

    Washington Law Officers Testify For Marijuana Legalization / Article by Steve Elliott

    Law enforcement officers who once waged the War On Drugs submitted testimony Tuesday supporting a bill to legalize and regulate marijuana in Washington state. The bill, HB 1550, sponsored by Rep. Mary Lou Dickerson, was heard by the House Committee on Public Safety & Emergency Preparedness.

    Norm Stamper, a retired Seattle chief of police, wrote that legalizing marijuana “would provide a great benefit for public safety by allowing the state’s police officers to focus on the worst crimes, protecting the people of Washington from burglaries, rapes, shootings, and drunk driving.”

    “Not only would it free up police resources, it would bring in much-needed new revenue for the state,” Stamper wrote.

    ?Stamper and the other criminal justice professionals who testified Tuesday are members of the organization Law Enforcement Against Prohibition (LEAP). LEAP represents police, prosecutors, judges, prison wardens, federal agents and others who want to legalize and regulate drugs.

    According to Rep. Dickerson, the bill could generate $400 million in new revenue for the state every two years. Of the revenues raised, 77 percent would be dedicated to health care and 20 percent to substance abuse and treatment.

    The bill would legalize marijuana for adults 21 and over, and allow it to be sold through state liquor stores, with commercial growers applying for a license through the Liquor Control Board.

    “Drug cases and marijuana cases in particular occupy an inordinate amount of money and time,” testified David Nichols, a retired Whatcom County Superior Court judge. “In addition to the court resources they waste, I witnessed the damage they inflicted upon individuals and their families and communities. And for what? Marijuana laws are not keeping anyone from using marijuana.”

    Also submitting testimony on Tuesday were retired U.S. Customs inspector Arnold James Byron, former police officer James Peet and former Washington State Department of Corrections probation officer Matt McCally.
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  6. #36
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    Originally posted by SuchIrony
    This is just one of the many things that's wrong with US society. Pot users are only harming themselves. Locking them up for long periods of time makes no sense at all.
    I totally agree! Using pot isn't going to make you evil or violent. So someone likes to get high on pot now and then? That's their perogative. As long as they don't smoke pot on the job, if they are otherwise competent and intelligent, I'd hire them.
    Pot if anything is a miracle drug; it calms and realxes those who use it, and does no harm to anyone else whatsoever.

  7. #37
    Another awesome member. Curator's Avatar
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    Oh, and oils extracted from it have been shown to KILL extremely resistant strains of MRSA... it has strong antibacterial/anti viral properties.

  8. #38
    Senior Member Sparrow's Avatar
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    Qualifying Medical Conditions for Marijuana Treatment (from https://www.marijuanadoctors.com/content/ailments/index)

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    * Alzheimer's Disease (Learn more)
    * Amphetamine Dependency
    * Amyloidosis
    * Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis (ALS) (Learn more)
    * Angina Pectoris
    * Ankylosis
    * Anorexia (Learn more)
    * Anorexia Nervosa (Learn more)
    * Anxiety Disorders (Learn more)
    * Any chronic medical symptom that limits major life activities
    * Any Chronic Medical Symptom that Limits Major Life Activities
    * Arteriosclerotic Heart Disease
    * Arthritis (Learn more)
    * Arthritis (Rheumatoid) (Learn more)
    * Arthropathy, gout
    * Asthma
    * Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADD/ADHD)
    * Autism/Aspergers
    * Autoimmune Disease
    * Back Pain (Learn more)
    * Back Sprain
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    * Cancer (Learn more)
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    * Cerebral Palsy
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    * Cervicobrachial Syndrome
    * Chemotherapy (Learn more)
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    * Hypertension
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  9. #39
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fan of Devin View Post
    Actually, I'd highly recommend that you use pot.
    I'm disinclined to take any of your advice what so ever but it doesnt surprise me that you'd like me to use drugs. My judgement is fine the way it is though stoner.

    Anyway, I posed the question to make a certain point, there's a lot of discussions which arent as straightforward as they should be, instead of arguing against laws prohibiting drug use people should have the courage to argue in favour of drug use if that is really what they are talking about.

    If you've got to be hooked on mind and mood altering chemicals to make it through life then there's something about your life that is badly wrong, its either yourself or your society but that's what you should really be thinking about not when you're next opportunity is to get high.

  10. #40
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    It won't bring an end to gangs, but it would reduce their income. Do I need to explain in detail how a reduction in income would lower the appeal of joining a cartel, how it would reduce bribery (and therefore corruption in the Mexican and US governments), and how it would make it more difficult for cartels to arm themselves?

    P.S. Ending alcohol prohibition didn't eliminate violence, but it did reduce violence.
    I'd suspect that the gangsters being co-opted through politics, legit businesses and other means into the ranks of the respectable had as much to do with the normalisation of post-prohibition society.

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