User Tag List

First 12345 Last

Results 21 to 30 of 107

  1. #21
    Senior Member Fan.of.Devin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Socionics
    INT-
    Posts
    294

    Default

    What?

    China has extremely draconian drug laws, and yet, illicit drug use abounds.
    Hence the above idea fails.
    INTP 4w5 SX/SP
    Tritype 4/5/8

  2. #22
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    8,828

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fan of Devin View Post
    What?

    China has extremely draconian drug laws, and yet, illicit drug use abounds.
    Hence the above idea fails.
    Are they the exact laws I suggested (killing drug users/sellers on sight), or just draconian compared to US laws?

  3. #23
    Senior Member Fan.of.Devin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Socionics
    INT-
    Posts
    294

    Default

    Capital punishment is pretty common for traffickers, users are frequently sent to labor camps.

    I'm not really understanding how you figure the death penalty, even your ridiculous example, is some magic deterrent that makes crime vanish...
    If that were the case, the murder rate would be zero in the most of the states of the US.
    INTP 4w5 SX/SP
    Tritype 4/5/8

  4. #24
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sp/so
    Socionics
    IEI
    Posts
    2,841

    Default

    Originally posted by Fan of Devin
    What?

    China has extremely draconian drug laws, and yet, illicit drug use abounds.
    Hence the above idea fails.
    Oh shit, I thought you were refering to my original idea of legalized drug practices, my bad.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Fan.of.Devin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Socionics
    INT-
    Posts
    294

    Default

    No harm done, chief.
    INTP 4w5 SX/SP
    Tritype 4/5/8

  6. #26
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    8,828

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fan of Devin View Post
    Capital punishment is pretty common for traffickers, users are frequently sent to labor camps.
    Well, that still involves a lot of bureaucracy. "Capital punishment" sounds like they're still tried in court and an execution time is set, right? And labor camps mean that they might survive or escape.
    I'm not really understanding how you figure the death penalty, even your ridiculous example, is some magic deterrent that makes crime vanish...
    If that were the case, the murder rate would be zero in the most of the states of the US.
    I'm not saying it would make crime vanish... I'm saying that it would reduce it significantly. If we just had people out on the streets at all times, who would kill anyone they saw with drugs, we could scare a lot of people into not using them anymore. Many of the others would be killed. Sure, there would be a few REALLY crafty and desperate ones who managed to put up elaborate fronts and take the huge risk of being killed, but there would be far fewer of those people. Very few of them could hide forever.

    The problem is that punishing the crimes goes too slowly because it has to go through all this bureaucracy, and the problem is so big that it needs to be dealt with in a more immediate fashion, as soon as it's seen.

    What I'm saying is, we either need to get serious about the war on drugs and win it, or we need to give up and quit pretending like our current laws actually do anything other than waste money.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Fan.of.Devin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Socionics
    INT-
    Posts
    294

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    If we just had people out on the streets at all times, who would kill anyone they saw with drugs,...
    We have tons of people like this at present moment, actually.
    This would be why drug dealers carry guns.

    If you believe narcotics traffickers and addicts are particularly afraid of death, well then, I'd say you should rethink the intricacies of the situation.
    These are people who voluntarily enter the single most violent field of organized crime, in the case of dealers, and people who regularly intake potentially lethal substances into their bodies habitually, in the case of users.
    INTP 4w5 SX/SP
    Tritype 4/5/8

  8. #28
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    8,828

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fan of Devin View Post
    We have tons of people like this at present moment, actually.
    This would be why drug dealers carry guns.
    Yes, but they're other drug dealers or drug users, mostly... not police officers or the military. I'm saying that if we had these people systematically hunted down, and showed no mercy, took away all their rights... I believe it would impact drug usage. Are you saying you don't think it would decrease much, if at all, under these circumstances?
    If you believe narcotics traffickers and addicts are particularly afraid of death, well then, I'd say you should rethink the intricacies of the situation.
    These are people who voluntarily enter the single most violent field of organized crime, in the case of dealers, and people who regularly intake potentially lethal substances into their bodies habitually, in the case of users.
    Okay, let's assume that they're not afraid of death. Then, what about we threaten to kill their families as well as them? Maybe THAT would make them stop.

    My point is that I believe that it's possible to create a scenario where the cost and risk of using drugs is so high that very few people would take the chance. But we would have to use every possible technique, whether it was ethical or not. The way things are right now, a lot of people are fairly casual with their drugs, they're easily able to find places to buy them, some are fairly open in talking about their drug use. It's obviously not being cracked down on that much. If we're really fighting drugs, people who even think about using them should be afraid that their friends will have them killed in order to protect themselves.

    I'm hoping that people will question whether what we would have to do to even get CLOSE to winning the war on drugs, would make people reconsider wasting their energy on laws that will not have an effect. I'm really hoping that they don't decide to implement my policies, but if they do, at least I'll applaud them for actually doing their best to eliminate drugs. What they're doing, is not their best, it's just a waste of money designed to please anti-drug interest groups.

    The thing is, if you're right, and even a scenario that the Chinese might cringe at wouldn't affect them at all (if implemented on wide scale, it would make Tienanmen Square look like the Rodney King incident by comparison)... then obviously our current laws are useless.

    The biggest problem with drug users, though, is that to even make a dent in them... we would have to treat them like they were far worse than thieves or murderers, because they're THAT determined. And I can't see many people going for that moral position.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    2,739

    Default

    Stop focusing on the violence and start focusing on the potential commodity. Ask, in a capitalist society, why would anyone punish someone for capitalizing on a plant?

    And what is all this about organized crime? We can't just use the stacking dead as an argument for legalization, because it would appear that we are bowing to a threat. We can also surely be civilized and avoid murdering citizens for their relatively harmless activities.

    I just don't understand it at all.

  10. #30
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    8,828

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    Stop focusing on the violence and start focusing on the potential commodity. Ask, in a capitalist society, why would anyone punish someone for capitalizing on a plant?

    And what is all this about organized crime? We can't just use the stacking dead as an argument for legalization, because it would appear that we are bowing to a threat. We can also surely be civilized and avoid murdering citizens for their relatively harmless activities.

    I just don't understand it at all.
    That would be too logical, Beargryllz.

    "That is merely logic. People are not moved by logic."

Similar Threads

  1. smart ways to save money other uber-cheap living ideas
    By Sanctus Iacobus in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 10-09-2011, 08:06 PM
  2. Famous Living NFs
    By Economica in forum Popular Culture and Type
    Replies: 144
    Last Post: 08-04-2009, 02:33 PM
  3. Sometimes guns do save lives.
    By Sniffles in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 05-06-2009, 07:59 PM
  4. Famous living Sensers
    By Economica in forum Popular Culture and Type
    Replies: 67
    Last Post: 04-27-2009, 10:52 AM
  5. Famous living NTs
    By Economica in forum Popular Culture and Type
    Replies: 35
    Last Post: 08-19-2007, 01:44 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO