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  1. #11
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dala View Post
    I have a bear-warding stick. Ever since I got it, I have not been the victim of a bear attack, or even so much as seen a bear. Maybe if I also get a headache warding stick I can get rid of those, too.

    On a more serious note, my own personal (anecdotal) experience is that it can trigger latent mental illness. In particular, it triggers panic attacks in individuals who are prone to such disorders. That being said, there are major issues with the schizophrenia studies that have been done. In particular, it is questionable whether cannabis use triggers schizophrenia, or it is more common in this population due to self medication. Maybe there is no cause and effect relationship at all, but a gene that predisposes people to schizophrenia also increases risk taking behaviour or some other trait. To ban it based on a mere correlation is a mistake.

    Even if cannabis directly causes early onset schizophrenia, this is still not a valid reason for prohibition. The drug has several valid medical uses, and preventing terminal cancer patients from receiving effective pain medication does nothing to prevent schizophrenia. Also, prohibition is ineffective and results in greater access for adolescents than heavily regulated but legal drugs like alcohol and tobacco.
    Yes, Dr Large of the University of New South Wales has done an extensive study of cannabis and early onset schizophrenia in adolescents which has recently been published in a peer reviewed journal.

    And Dr Large found that cannabis use substantially increases the incidence of early onset schizophrenia in adolescents.

    If you are uncertain about this, why not ring the Uniiversity of New South Wales and ask for Dr Large, I am sure he would answer your questions.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Yes, Dr Large of the University of New South Wales has done an extensive study of cannabis and early onset schizophrenia in adolescents which has recently been published in a peer reviewed journal.

    And Dr Large found that cannabis use substantially increases the incidence of early onset schizophrenia in adolescents.

    If you are uncertain about this, why not ring the Uniiversity of New South Wales and ask for Dr Large, I am sure he would answer your questions.
    Your response is a fallacious appeal to authority and ignores most of my points, but I can run with that. According to a press release from the University of South Wales regarding this specific study, the researchers explicitly state that they do not know if cannabis use causes psychosis. All they know, as stated in this release, is that cannabis users begin exhibiting signs of psychosis earlier than those that don't.

    Even though causality is unknown even by researchers, lets look at a study (also peer-reviewed) conducted in the UK by researchers who believe there is a causal relationship and wanted to know what it would take to prevent cannabis-induced schizophrenia. According to this study's findings, which are based on trends in marijuana usage and the occurrence of schizophrenia over time, it would be necessary to stop 7800 heavy cannabis users to prevent a single case of schizophrenia. Those numbers rise significantly for light users.

    In a population of 21.5 million, you will end up with approximately 215,000 schizophrenics(or 1%). of these, a top range of 20% (since approximately 80% is explained by genetics), or 43,000 might be caused in part by cannabis use. You would have to prevent approximately 15.6 times the country's population from smoking marijuana in order to prevent all of those individuals from becoming schizophrenic. Since approximately 18% of Australians use cannabis, you could only expect to prevent, at most, 496 cases of schizophrenia if you were to somehow stop every single person from using it. That isn't per year, that's over the currently existing population's lifetimes.

    Now the question becomes, do you spend countless millions of dollars enforcing unpopular laws and incarcerating otherwise law abiding citizens in an attempt to prevent, at most, a quarter of one percent of all cases of schizophrenia? It seems like there are more effective and less restrictive ways to help schizophrenics.

  3. #13
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dala View Post
    Now the question becomes, do you spend countless millions of dollars enforcing unpopular laws and incarcerating otherwise law abiding citizens in an attempt to prevent, at most, a quarter of one percent of all cases of schizophrenia? It seems like there are more effective and less restrictive ways to help schizophrenics.
    Our laws aren't unpopular for we have a vibrant liberal democracy, while your laws are unpopular and you are even armed against your own government.

    And quite unlike you we don't jail anyone for possession of small amounts of cannabis.

    We are quite unlike you and that's the way we like it.

  4. #14
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    I'm not American, and your post had absolutely nothing to do with mine. Nice try.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Our laws aren't unpopular for we have a vibrant liberal democracy, while your laws are unpopular and you are even armed against your own government.

    And quite unlike you we don't jail anyone for possession of small amounts of cannabis.

    We are quite unlike you and that's the way we like it.
    Let no one tell you that pride is a weakness. It is empowering, even now, against all odds.

  6. #16
    The Eighth Colour Octarine's Avatar
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    The problem with these studies is they are not longitudinal and there are no controls. So all you have is an uncertain correlation. Of course such a study isn't considered ethical in most countries, so I don't see this link being proven anytime soon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    East Timor did not have an army of one million. That's the entire population of the island.
    East Timor was 'liberated' from Indonesia, which had the army of 'one million'.

    Quote Originally Posted by dala View Post
    Since approximately 18% of Australians use cannabis.
    That is 18% of respondents admitted to have tried cannabis some point in their life, based on a survey of limited sample size.

    Estimates of daily users is 300,000. http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/31556.html
    But this in itself is based on limited evidence.

    As far as gun crime goes, I'd say this is actually partially explained by a difference in culture. Guns provide an alternative means, but not a motive.
    See also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_pol...ts_of_the_laws

  7. #17
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    Smile Adolescent Schizophrenia and the Sexually Inadequate

    Early onset schizophrenia in adolescents is the very worse kind for the sufferers and their families. So to trade adolescent schizophrenia to enhance the sexuality of the inadequate seems a high price to pay.

  8. #18
    The Unwieldy Clawed One Falcarius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    When we read newspapers from the USA, we find almost no mention of Oz. So we have learnt, if we don't speak up, no one else will.

    However we have found if we shout at the USA, they will listen. A good example was the liberation of East Timor. Our 25,000 army was faced with a 1,000,000 army, so having a long standing military treaty in good order with the USA, we asked for help. The USA were deaf to our pleas and wouldn't provide help, so we screamed at them, and finally they came to the party. The USA embassador pointed out that the USA would look askance at war against Oz and to back this up, the USA positioned a ship full of Marines off the coast of East Timor while we went ashore. And under the legal auspices of the United Nations we liberated East Timor.
    Rubbish, utter rubbish. Australia arguably owes her very existence to the Timorese which it also happened to unleash on of the greatest betrayals of modern times.

    During the beginning of World War Two, the Australian 'Sparrow Force' landed on the neutral Portuguese colony of East Timor, hoping to prevent the advancing Japanese from invading Australia. For the Timorese it was the start of a nightmare, after a few years Australia had enough and leaving them to fight the Japanese on their own in spite of of the promising the Timorese to stay to the end. Despite being lured into a war with the Japanese, the Timorese supplied and protected Australia, being so successful Australia only lost a few hundred men, the Timorese in return lost over 60,000 of their own people, most of whom were massacred after Australia retreated by the Japanese in retribution for siding with Australia. After retreating the Australian Air Force dropped leaflets promising not to forget their Timorese friends

    Fast forward two decades, the western powers decided for South-East Asian regional stability it was not ideal to have a non-aligned populist leader who fused communism, religion, and nationalism. Britain was especially angered when Sukarno attempted to destabilise the new federation of Malaysia. Between World War Two and Suharto's takeover, Indonesia was one of the freest parliamentary democracies in the world where over thirty political parties competed at each election. The West succeeded in replacing Sukarno with Suharto, which marked the start of Australian appeasement of Suharto military dictatorship. Australia rushed to give the new negime its support for western 'aid'. A novel way to describe giving millions to Suharto for military weapons like BAE Hawks and CAC Sabres.

    Australia had several months advance knowledge of Suharto's East Timor invasion plans but did nothing. Even when Gerald Ford and Henry Kissinger personally met with Suharto on the day before the invasion of East Timor, giving him the all clear to invade: Australia still said nothing. Two months before the 'official' start of the invasion a group of Australian television crews went to East Timor to investigate the 'rumours' of invasion, they witnessed the Indonesian landing for which they were murdered Indonesian troops. Austrailia made no protest to Jakarta nor made any real effort to get justice for the Balibo Five in fear offending their ally Suharto.

    In 1974, the year before Suharto invaded East Timor, Gough Whitlam met Suharto and said he believed East Timorese were best off as part Indonesia; under Malcolm Fraser's government Suharto opposition radio transmitter was shut in Australia, and his government became the first international government to give de jure recognition of the Indonesian occupation of Portuguese Timor; Bob Hawke's and Paul Keating governments were much more interested in plundering East Timor than Indonesia human right records, they signed the Timor Gap Treaty allowing Indonesia and Australian to steal East Timor's oil, not content it was later upgraded it to steal East Timor's fisheries and other maritime resources; John Howard held a press conference with Bill Clinton in the dying days of Suharto regime when he said he would not allow East Timor ''to contaminate or undermine the border relationship' this was in marked contrast of Clinton who talked of political change in Indonesia; after Suharto's death Kevin Rudd said: "Former President Suharto was one of the longest-serving heads of government of the last century and an influential figure in Australia's region and beyond". Falcarius is not sure how someone who killed over a million people is an ''influential figure''.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thalassa View Post
    Oh our 3rd person reference to ourselves denotes nothing more than we realize we are epic characters on the forum.

    Narcissism, plain and simple.

  9. #19
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Substantial Australian research recently published has shown that cannabis precipitates schizophrenia in a proportion of adolescents.

    So although we don't jail users who possess small amounts of cannabis, it is unlikely in the light of these findings that we will legalise cannabis.

    So how lucky can we be? We have banned guns and have had no gun massacres since, and cannabis will remain illegal, and together with a government campaign to limit adolescent use, the worst kind of schizophrenia, adolescent onset schizophrenia, will be limited.
    This sounds like some bogus "study" pulled out of the asses of ultra conservatives (on the issue of Marijuana legalization). I'd be interested to look at the overwhelming amount of documented stories that suggest what you're saying here is true. Links?

  10. #20
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    they've been trying to prove weed causes schizophrenia for years. the only thing they've been able to prove and that's iffy at best. Is if you're gonna be schizophrenic anyways weed might speed things along. and most schizoprhenics actually prefer to be left alone and are rarely violent unless provoked.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

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