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  1. #51
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    @ Fox being "fair and balanced"
    Yeah, that's a great slogan. The pretzel logic involved is weirdly fascinating.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  2. #52
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Plus, as a libertarian, I am outside of the current mainstream of American politics.
    I hope that isn't your bid, that you are more objective than liberals or conservatives.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    I hope that isn't your bid, that you are more objective than liberals or conservatives.
    You misinterpreted what I am saying. I meant that I would venture that the majority of Americans would not agree with me on most of what I believe politically, when it was asserted earlier that "the majority of American would probably agree with (me)" on this subject. I would think that the majority wouldn't or couldn't formulate an opinion on the subject, and, if they did, it wouldn't correlate with mine.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  4. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    The Hitler comment I found offensive. I have spent an entire thread decrying authoritarianism in all its forms, and that just got my goat. I didn't mean to be intemperate.
    Haha, I knew what you meant by outrageous. It was a cheap shot, I only did it to impugn your FJ morality.

    It's the one button I can always push, to make my FJ friends want to punch me in the face (which they never actually do - they're FJs after all).

  5. #55
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    This is interesting, I always got the impression Chavez was a maverick and a man of the people -- often such revolutionaries for change get pegged as crazy and evil even and especially if they do things that similar leaders and their contemporaries do. Part of it is the romanticized notion and unreachable standards of 'revolutionaries' and idealists and part of it is just pure backlash and people in power seeing an enemy and villifying him.

    I'm surprised to hear he is talking smack about his neighboring countries.

    I still give him props for calling Bush 'el diablo'. Hee hee hee. And saying at the UN what, "it smells like brimstone here from the devil [Bush]'
    “If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.” ― Oscar Wilde

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  6. #56
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    This is interesting, I always got the impression Chavez was a maverick and a man of the people -- often such revolutionaries for change get pegged as crazy and evil even and especially if they do things that similar leaders and their contemporaries do. Part of it is the romanticized notion and unreachable standards of 'revolutionaries' and idealists and part of it is just pure backlash and people in power seeing an enemy and villifying him.

    I'm surprised to hear he is talking smack about his neighboring countries.

    I still give him props for calling Bush 'el diablo'. Hee hee hee. And saying at the UN what, "it smells like brimstone here from the devil [Bush]'
    Appealing to "the people" with nationalistic jargon and populist economic policies is de rigueur for demagogues. It happens in America, too. Look at the border hawks and the anti-corporate rhetoric the last few elections. Chavez is an opportunist.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  7. #57
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    Oh Mercury, where is the idealist in you?

    And don't you see a difference in appealing to the masses when one of the masses are rich and hold 1/3 of the world's wealth and natural resources and must protect them at all costs against dirty foreigners and terrorists and the other group of masses are dirt poor and have no opportunities?

    I think people often get caught up in the surface similarities and totally overlook the very different goals, motivations, politics and socio-economic histories of what's going on. I guess my earlier point is that leaders are always accused of being disengenous, opportunistic, caring only for themselves, and being a 'populist' is seen as being a dirty greasy thing in itself. As if 'the people' are a stupid unclean horde-animal of unchecked greed and base instinct. It's a very elitist kinda paranoid western old-school way of looking at things, I think it was Hobbes...or Locke...who summed it up. This kind of distrust of 'the people' and people who make themselves leaders of 'the people' is often looked at with distrust and even distaste. Especially in the case of non-white 'third world' leaders.

    I think there is a big difference in leaders between people who just want to be alphas or compensate personally or "get theirs" (most politicians I agree) for something to achieve leadership and people who actually want to effect change and care about social justice and care about 'the people', their consituents, etc.

    I guess it depends on how you personally perceive the situation, but oftentime I think people do not believe AT ALL that such selfless leaders exist.

    I'm sure Obama in a few years will be knocked down quite a few pegs as well.
    “If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.” ― Oscar Wilde

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  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    Oh Mercury, where is the idealist in you?

    And don't you see a difference in appealing to the masses when one of the masses are rich and hold 1/3 of the world's wealth and natural resources and must protect them at all costs against dirty foreigners and terrorists and the other group of masses are dirt poor and have no opportunities?

    I think people often get caught up in the surface similarities and totally overlook the very different goals, motivations, politics and socio-economic histories of what's going on. I guess my earlier point is that leaders are always accused of being disengenous, opportunistic, caring only for themselves, and being a 'populist' is seen as being a dirty greasy thing in itself. Especially non-white 'third world' leaders.

    I think there is a big difference in leaders between people who just want to be alphas or compensate personally or "get theirs" (most politicians I agree) for something to achieve leadership and people who actually want to effect change and care about social justice and care about 'the people', their consituents, etc.

    I guess it depends on how you personally perceive the situation, but oftentime I think people do not believe AT ALL that such benevolent leaders exist.

    I'm sure Obama in a few years will be knocked down quite a few pegs as well.
    No, because appealing to the masses with policies that are unjust is no virtue at all. I am an idealist. In my ideal world, the political leaders would have very little power, and would be there simply to help secure our rights, not to try to remake the world in some image of the workers, or the Aryans, or a particular religious group, or whatever wrong-headed notion one may have. Liberty is paramount to me, and Chavez is no exemplar. I disagree with his style AND his substance.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

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