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  1. #81
    Starcrossed Seafarer Aquarelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    I have a grudge with inconsistency. It's glaring in many INFJs, what can I say? It's however way more glaring in ENT types.. and I let them know regularly.. I find it telling that no one suggests I have a grudge with ENTs for doing so.. Go figure.

    I also admit that dismissal is now the end of a conversation.
    My own personal history suggests this is a much better option for me than to get upset.

    I only expect that people have manners.. even if they disagree.. It says so much when someone is claiming to be on the side of humanity and morality and they don't even know how to communicate.
    They talk about a greater respect but can't display it in their quest to communicate this respect.
    I don't think I'm being inconsistent; sometimes being on the side of humanity in general requires taking a hard line against ideas that threaten it. 'Tevs though. You don't have to approve of all of my opinions. I don't much approve of yours in this thread, but overall I still like and respect you.
    Masquerading as a normal person day after day is exhausting.

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  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquarelle99 View Post
    I don't think I'm being inconsistent; sometimes being on the side of humanity in general requires taking a hard line against ideas that threaten it. 'Tevs though. You don't have to approve of all of my opinions. I don't much approve of yours in this thread, but overall I still like and respect you.
    Of course which side best serves humanity is the whole debate.. If there is enough opposition to something then obviously this is not for the greater good.
    Because one idea seeks to protect while the other seeks to change. There is a tendency to believe that change is always the right thing to do.
    It's called progress.

    But sometimes an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

    Whatever the ideals behind multiculturalism, the reality is proving to be a failure.
    It seems that some people would rather continue to go with an idea they believe in, rather than admit it has actually been counter productive to it's ideology.
    I am not saying the principle behind multiculturalism is bad. Only that this attempt and method of implementing it has not been successful.

    A new approach is needed. One that invloves open discussion with everyone involved, and that includes the majority.. who have feelings too.
    And THAT point always seems to be forgotten.
    And that is what people are opposed to.

    I like and respect you too.. this is why it hurts when certain people treat me in a lesser way than I would treat them.. You are also right that this is my issue and not yours.

  3. #83
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    The top most integrated and multicultural cities in the US are NYC, Norfolk (Virginia), San Jose, Sacramento, Miami, San Antonio, Tampa, San Francisco, etc.

    These regions are more affluent and educated than their backwards segregated counterparts by leaps and bounds... segregated gems like Detroit, Cincinnati, Newark and dirt poor white rural areas in Alabama, Louisiana, Tennessee... etc

    And if we're talking worldwide, Vancouver ranks amongst the most livable, highest quality-of-life, most educated, and low crime cities in the world in all the indexes and surveys... arguably, Vancouver has the best standards of living anywhere. It's also one of the most diverse cities on the planet. You could almost say the same thing about Sydney.

    Multiculturalism ftw, then.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I also think it's worth noting that the nations with the lowest crime rates are also among the most homogeneous in the world.
    So are many of the nations with the highest crime rates. And not just the brown countries.

  4. #84
    Starcrossed Seafarer Aquarelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    Because one idea seeks to protect while the other seeks to change. There is a tendency to believe that change is always the right thing to do. It's called progress.

    But sometimes an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
    I moved your blocks around to contrast the statement above with the one directly below. If I understand correctly, above, you state that one side(namely, those "for" multiculturalism) want change for the sake of change because they think change is always better, no matter what. And the other side wants to protect instead. But below, you say, "A new approach is needed." A new approach would constitute change, would it not? We agree, it seems, that change is needed. We just disagree on what kind.

    A new approach is needed. One that invloves open discussion with everyone involved, and that includes the majority.. who have feelings too.
    And THAT point always seems to be forgotten.
    And that is what people are opposed to.
    Yes, certainly the majority has feelings as well. But the majority's interests are usually codified into society and burned so deeply into the culture that sometimes we can't even see it anymore. Our interests are inherently protected.

    Whatever the ideals behind multiculturalism, the reality is proving to be a failure.
    It seems that some people would rather continue to go with an idea they believe in, rather than admit it has actually been counter productive to it's ideology.
    I am not saying the principle behind multiculturalism is bad. Only that this attempt and method of implementing it has not been successful.
    I don't know that there really was, originally, a attempt at or principle behind multiculturalism. It came about, largely, because of colonization, a process that involved subjugating minorities so that the majority could thrive. That is the origin of multiculturalism in many countries-- not an attempt to bring different cultures together for the sake of increased diversity and mutual benefit, but one culture putting its power to use to get rich at the expense of other cultures. With a beginning like that, of course the reality is flawed. How could it not be? But the reality is here, and it's not going away. So we need to change our perception of it and learn to coexist peacefully.

    I like and respect you too.. this is why it hurts when certain people treat me in a lesser way than I would treat them.. You are also right that this is my issue and not yours.
    Well if it means anything to you, I didn't mean to be disrespectful to you. I can think you're wrong about something and still respect you.
    Masquerading as a normal person day after day is exhausting.

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  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquarelle99 View Post
    Thanks for the very condescending lesson. I was already well aware that other cultures have different views on gender equality, homosexuality, etc. I work in international education, so that is what I spend all day educating college students about.
    Your posts appears to be suggesting that Westerners are bigots if they do not bend over backwards to accommodate immigrant values. I believe many foreign cultures hold values which are incompatible with ours.

  6. #86
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Default Holding the ring.

    Multi-culturalism is an act of genius like secularism

    Secularism rose out of the wars of religion, and gave us freedom of religion and the separation of Church and State. In other words, secularism enabled religions to live peacefully beside one another.

    And in exactly the same way multi-culturalism enables different cultures to live peacefully side by side.

    What is interesting is this - I am regularly told by those who make up the multi-cultural community that Australians have no culture. And how true this is, for we are the ones who hold the ring.

    And just as our secular parliament has no religion, so Australians have no culture.

    And by this simple act of genius we have pulled the teeth of both religion and culture.

    And by holding the ring in both religion and culture, we remain invisible.

  7. #87
    Starcrossed Seafarer Aquarelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not_Me View Post
    Your posts appears to be suggesting that Westerners are bigots if they do not bend over backwards to accommodate immigrant values. I believe many foreign cultures hold values which are incompatible with ours.
    That's a bit hyperbolic. I never said anything about Westerners being bigots, nor about bending over backwards. SOME Westerners are bigots, no doubt. Some non-Westerners, too. And I don't think we need to bend over backwards, just move over a bit to make room for other perspectives.

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Multi-culturalism is an act of genius like secularism

    Secularism rose out of the wars of religion, and gave us freedom of religion and the separation of Church and State. In other words, secularism enabled religions to live peacefully beside one another.

    And in exactly the same way multi-culturalism enables different cultures to live peacefully side by side.

    What is interesting is this - I am regularly told by those who make up the multi-cultural community that Australians have no culture. And how true this is, for we are the ones who hold the ring.
    That's a very nice way to describe it. Thanks for that.
    Masquerading as a normal person day after day is exhausting.

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  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kasper View Post
    Unless you're speaking of the Aboriginal population which is a small minority, Australia is a country founded on immigration, therefore by default the residents (Aborigines aside) did ask for it.
    Really ? Don't be such a hypocrite, Australia had that "White only policy" during almost all the 20th century.

    And the aborigines treatment is a good example of how the australian "multiculturalism" propaganda is BS.

    Multiculturalism is crazy, and no western countries asked for it until the 70s when forced globalization/multiculturalism/feminism took place to decrease working people salaries and increase bosses salaries + profit. It's just history.

  9. #89
    Starcrossed Seafarer Aquarelle's Avatar
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    Well... yeah, I'd have to say that the European countries did ask for it when they (we; my ancestors included, probably) went out and colonized the Americas, Africa, and Asia. Pretty sure the "workers" made some pretty crappy salaries when they were slaves, colonized peoples and indentures servants, and the "bosses" (plantation owners, merchants, etc) made a lot of money off exploiting the inhabitants of the countries they colonized.

    Of course at the time they didn't want multiculturalism in the sense that all cultures have the same rights. Quite the opposite. Still, our Western ancestors made the bed; now we must lie in it.
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  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquarelle99 View Post
    Well... yeah, I'd have to say that the European countries did ask for it when they (we; my ancestors included, probably) went out and colonized the Americas, Africa, and Asia. Pretty sure the "workers" made some pretty crappy salaries when they were slaves, colonized peoples and indentures servants, and the "bosses" (plantation owners, merchants, etc) made a lot of money off exploiting the inhabitants of the countries they colonized.

    Of course at the time they didn't want multiculturalism in the sense that all cultures have the same rights. Quite the opposite. Still, our Western ancestors made the bed; now we must lie in it.
    I don't mind the USA, South Africa, Canada and Australia, the Whites are not on their land, this would be only justice if the Natives would kick their asses. But for Europe, I think the culture+people must be preserved and not be overtaken by immigrants, muslims or whatever.

    We should let this "multiculturalism countries" do this, and leave Europe "clean". The continent is the heart of Western world/culture since at least 2500 years.

    But looking at London, Paris etc... it's already too late...

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