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  1. #31
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YourLocalJesus View Post
    Instead they get to move into wildly mixed ghettos where few people works, and where they can never assimilate into society.
    Yeah, that's usually the problem. I'm lucky that in my small city, even if immigrants compose around 25% of the population, there has been a strong anti-ghetto policy: for each district, there's a cap to the % of immigrants over the whole population, which guarantees that ex. children of immigrants end up attending schools where the % of immigrants isn't really high, thus gangs are unlikely to form. In many other places immigrants flock to low-income areas, because that's where houses are cheaper, thus perpertating a self-fulfilling prophecy.
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  2. #32
    lab rat extraordinaire CrystalViolet's Avatar
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    I'd be technically considered an immigrint. I don't think any one has objections to me being here (Oz)....but I'm white, and I'm skilled and educated, and I speak english fluently seeing as it's my mother tounge, plus I only come from across the ditch.
    I do see a problem though here. I'm very P.C. and idealistic most of the time, but there does seem to be a real problem with middle eastern muslim integration. Most cultures by the time they are second or third generation, they are pretty much Australian for better or worse (and I'm cringing when I write this)but the middle eastern (lebanese) muslims are not so much. The middle eastern christians seem to have a far easier time of it.
    We had the Cronulla beach protests a couple of years back, whilist I think it was mostly young bogans, what basically ignited the whole thing was a group of lebanese men ignoring a coast guard about kicking a football around.

    When I was still doing the christian thing, a very far sighted NZ pastor, I heard speak, felt that the ancient rivalry between muslim and christian was about to raise it's ugly head, He said this the day after 9/11.....I can't help thinking about that, when reading this. It's not every one....it's not even half. Mostly, people just want to get on with thier lives....but there does seem to be "differences"
    There was a huge rape case, not so long back....the (white) girl was extremely brave. She was basically gang raped at a party by some muslim boys. It was disgraceful. (and the things that boys parents said were appalling.) It's things like that that do not curry favour. I mean you don't hear of a bunch of indians doing that, or even Asian boys (although I'm sure it happens).
    At the end of the day, you've got to judge theses things on a case by case basis though.
    I think there should be a limit on how many family members you can sponsor for citizenship...a couple of my friends wouldn't have citizenship if that were the case though.
    I like experiencing different cultures. I don't like making observations as above.
    In the end, most people want to live and let live but extremist of any ilk should be encouraged to move along.
    Currently submerged under an avalanche of books and paper work. I may come back up for air from time to time.
    Real life awaits and she is a demanding mistress.

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  3. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by YourLocalJesus View Post
    Multiculturalism can be good. And it can be bad... No easy answer to that one.
    Personally, I have experienced no major problems with the difference between western cultures.
    With eastern european, middle eastern and african cultures though... That's another matter.
    East-asian cultures and western culture seem to be compatible, in most cases, as well.
    I've thought about that too, it seems strange to me but the east-asian ones really do appear to mesh alright with our own.

  4. #34
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Monoculture seldom turns out good.

  5. #35
    sophiloist Kaizer's Avatar
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    To the OP and the author of this title: I seems you're right. It seems so mainly because the principle and the framework you're advocating are interdependent and are based in and on reasons rooted in economic issues / wealth acquisition. And it seems that its the injection of people for whom you can justify the lack of responsibility of, out of all the people you feel this lack of responsibility towards, that seems to make it possible for you to state an argument which can be plausible given the premises you assume or cushion this argument in. so multiculturalism to such people is great if it increases their wealth as they see it, and conversely bad if it 'negatively' affects their financial state of being; basically it isn't about multiculturalism. this is also what they say about politics i.e that politics is about coming to power and holding on to it because that is concerned with the control over the power-authority nexus (because it helps the co-dependent ends of money and power.. more money to get/ensure/protect power, and more power to get/ensure/protect money).

    humanity's failure to organize itself such that it can manage itself to the best of its ability which, in turn, durably and sustainably pushes it towards the beacon that is its best possible progress towards its so called 'zenith', which I doubt we know well enough, is something that those who manipulate humanity to serve their own vested interest do not consider or in fact are fundamentally set dead against. There's that old almost cliché'd quote which goes along the lines of 'people aren't against oppression, they're just against the oppressor', which can be compared, for similarity's sake, with the principle stated by Confucius about any form of status being wholly and solely based upon merit.
    Last edited by Kaizer; 02-06-2011 at 10:31 AM. Reason: content clairification / detail
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  6. #36
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YourLocalJesus View Post
    About that... Educated professionals tend not to be religious fanatics, violent criminals, thieves, wife abusers, terrorists or stuff like that.
    False.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by YourLocalJesus View Post
    About that... Educated professionals tend not to be religious fanatics, violent criminals, thieves, wife abusers, terrorists or stuff like that.
    Well, maybe "terrorists", at times. That's a term I really don't like, "freedom fighters" are more like it in most (but not all) cases.
    Wow.. I am really surprised at this statement.. really.. Is this sarcasm that is just going over my head?

    About religious fanatics..You're Kidding right?
    About Violent criminals.. Have you seen your government??.. Abusive Police?? Do you watch the news??
    About thieves.. Inside trading, fraud, tax evasion, misuse and abuse of public funds..
    About Wife abusers?? Come on man!!... You are kidding me.. Right ????
    About terrorists.. So whose freedom were Terry Nichols, Tim McVeigh and Eric Rudolph fighting for?? Who were their victims again??

    I mean no offense really.. and I hope I am missing the joke..

  8. #38
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    I think it makes sense for Western cultures to strongly promote it's values to immigrants who often tend to have a higher birth rate. Otherwise, Western values will eventually get superseded democratically.

  9. #39
    lab rat extraordinaire CrystalViolet's Avatar
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    How much of this is fear mongering, and propoganda? I'm guilty as the next person spouting the party line....but you have to wonder, how much of this all true?
    Currently submerged under an avalanche of books and paper work. I may come back up for air from time to time.
    Real life awaits and she is a demanding mistress.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  10. #40
    Oberon
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    I think functional multiculturalism is essentially an illusion. Cultures can co-exist, but they don't mix. In the US we're not the "melting pot" any more; since the adoption of multiculturalism as a core value we've been at best a suspension, or an emulsion. The ingredients are there, side by side, but they're not blending with one another.

    I think we in the West should abandon the premise that multiculturalism is intrinsically good, and should focus rather on addressing the numerous shortcomings of Western civilization, and drawing on its core strengths in areas where it excels. I think a false faith in multiculturalism just leads to increased friction and the pandering of identity politics, and it compounds the West's profound sense that it has no idea where it's going.

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