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  1. #151
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Yeah, I do, actually. Why do you ask?
    Because your strategy is highly theoretical and it seems to be lacking in areas that are obvious to people with actual experience (see lowtech redneck's post before mine).
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  2. #152
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Because your strategy is highly theoretical and it seems to be lacking in areas that are obvious to people with actual experience.
    Let me tell you a story. I knew one family growing up, who used this strategy. I never could understand why the kids were so polite and obedient, when doing what you wanted was so much more fun. Yet, I never heard their parents (and I was over at their house a lot growing up) yell at them once, nor did I ever see them get in the way of their desires, unless it threatened harm to them, or constituted something the parents found immoral. However, they were absolutely expected to keep up with their responsibilities around the house, and yes, it was always tied to future benefits.

    Oddly enough, the parents were hardcore Evangelical Christians, homeschooled their kids for the first 8 years, and the kids ended up taking up their parents' beliefs happily. They were also very popular around the neighborhood, and still have a lot of friends back home. Thing is, I wonder if that's because they associate those beliefs with warm emotions and an atmosphere of perpetual love, instead of the stereotypical fire and brimstone.

  3. #153
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Let me tell you a story. I knew one family growing up, who used this strategy. I never could understand why the kids were so polite and obedient, when doing what you wanted was so much more fun. Yet, I never heard their parents (and I was over at their house a lot growing up) yell at them once, nor did I ever see them get in the way of their desires, unless it threatened harm to them, or constituted something the parents found immoral. However, they were absolutely expected to keep up with their responsibilities around the house, and yes, it was always tied to future benefits.

    Oddly enough, the parents were hardcore Evangelical Christians, homeschooled their kids for the first 8 years, and the kids ended up taking up their parents' beliefs happily. They were also very popular around the neighborhood, and still have a lot of friends back home. Thing is, I wonder if that's because they associate those beliefs with warm emotions and an atmosphere of perpetual love, instead of the stereotypical fire and brimstone.
    I doubt you know the whole story.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  4. #154
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I doubt you know the whole story.
    Thought you might say something like that. Let's also keep in mind that they managed to get me to behave over at their house using this technique when I was young, and if you knew anything about me as a child, that was nothing short of a miracle.

    Sorry that you don't believe that this is possible. It's a shame.

  5. #155
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Thought you might say something like that. Let's also keep in mind that they managed to get me to behave over at their house using this technique when I was young, and if you knew anything about me as a child, that was nothing short of a miracle.

    Sorry that you don't believe that this is possible. It's a shame.
    I don't doubt that it can work. I just doubt that it can work all the time, on every child. That style would have been extremely difficult to apply to my oldest sister, and probably would have required many deviations.

    The effect they had on you is not surprising, regardless of how difficult you might have been as a young child. It's when you are familiar with each other that the real tests come.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  6. #156
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    The bitch about anecdotal evidence is that it's always true, but it just usually doesn't mean anything to most people

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I see the difference and it's only philosophical, not practical. Children don't care about your philosophy and the subtle way you might phrase something differently. Your child is still going to think you're a jerk for not giving him what he wants when he wants it, regardless of your subtle nuance.

    When I see 10 year-old children sitting at a table, sipping wine, and debating philosophical nuances, then I'll agree with you.
    Maybe, maybe not. It worked for me. My parents were not verbally abusive to me or angry, they were thoughtful about their wording for the most part, but they did spank me. I was very independent right out of the box. I thought they were mean for limiting me to learn and do things the proper way, when at 10, I just wanted the keys, "let me do it myself". I also came to respect them, listen to them, and trust them. I've never forgotten the way they delivered their words or the moral lessons. They taught me unconditional love; amongst many other things that I didn't fully appreciate until I reached 20.

    So, with that said, what's not realized now with your kids, will be later. Expect it. Meaning, someday your children will understand the lessons and morals you tried to teach them. Your children *will* remember the manner in which you delivered your message, if you 'yourself' lived by it, and they'll judge its worth accordingly.

    BTW, My parents were not hard core Christians and I don't remember hearing any Bible scriptures applied to why it's not safe for me to climb up on the counter top to reach a bowl and serve myself up some tasty cereal on Saturday morning. My Mom did pray with us every night though when she tucked us in. :redface:

  8. #158
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    Maybe, maybe not. It worked for me. My parents were not verbally abusive to me or angry, they were thoughtful about their wording (I see that looking back), but they did spank me.
    If you were spanked, they deviated from onemoretime's strategy.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    If you were spanked, they deviated from onemoretime's strategy.
    I understand. I identified with the positive communication techniques and long-term benefits. This isn't the first time I've gotten side-tracked up on my soapbox and rambled on aimlessly about spankings. I'm so proud. Yes, I needed them!

  10. #160
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    I'm honestly a little surprised to see anyone defending the actions of the mother in the OP. I don't know that it rises to the level where foster care is a better option, but it's pretty disgusting IMO.

    Having said that- for several years I was a parenting genius and agreed completely with onemoretime. That was when I had one kid. The other one has schooled me pretty hard. We still don't spank but the strategy onemoretime described is just not sufficient at all times for him.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

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