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  1. #141
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    You are incredibly naive if you think children will care about your phrasing, and that's all this is, phrasing the issue differently.
    No. In one instance it requires coercion to enforce the consequence. In the other, it merely requires inaction. I don't know why you can't see the difference between the two.

  2. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    Authoritative, authoritarian, indulgent and neglectful.

    NT, SJ, NF, and SP.

    :P
    ...lol, interesting observation.

    Everyone seems really caught up in the orders vs. request thing. I think the most important difference between authoritative and authoritarian is that authoritative parents treat their kids respectfully and give them options and explanations, which authoritarian ones give orders without explanation. I'm not convinced that any parent, anywhere, has ever not given their child orders at some point.

  3. #143
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    No. In one instance it requires coercion to enforce the consequence. In the other, it merely requires inaction. I don't know why you can't see the difference between the two.
    I see the difference and it's only philosophical, not practical. Children don't care about your philosophy and the subtle way you might phrase something differently. Your child is still going to think you're a jerk for not giving him what he wants when he wants it, regardless of your subtle nuance.

    When I see 10 year-old children sitting at a table, sipping wine, and debating philosophical nuances, then I'll agree with you.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  4. #144
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I see the difference and it's only philosophical, not practical. Children don't care about your philosophy and the subtle way you might phrase something differently. Your child is still going to think you're a jerk for not giving him what he wants when he wants it, regardless of your subtle nuance.

    When I see 10 year-old children sitting at a table, sipping wine, and debating philosophical nuances, then I'll agree with you.
    And once again, I don't give a crap what the 10 year old thinks of me at that moment. He's 10, after all. What I do care about is later on, when he's 16-17, whether he sees me as someone who helps him in exchange for him helping me out, or someone who simply gets in the way of what he wants unless I get what I want. It's not at all about the moment.

  5. #145
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    And once again, I don't give a crap what the 10 year old thinks of me at that moment. He's 10, after all. What I do care about is later on, when he's 16-17, whether he sees me as someone who helps him in exchange for him helping me out, or someone who simply gets in the way of what he wants unless I get what I want. It's not at all about the moment.
    Good luck getting a moment of peace and quiet. You won't make it. And the years of resentment (you said you don't care what they think of you when they are 10) from when they were younger will build up and color their judgment when they are older. Children aren't just some equation. They are incredibly complex and each one is different. There are some children where you wouldn't make it through a single day with your strategy.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  6. #146
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Good luck getting a moment of peace and quiet. You won't make it. And the years of resentment (you don't care what they think of you when they are 10) from when they were younger will build up and color their judgment when they are older. Children aren't just some equation. They are incredibly complex and each one is different. There are some children where you wouldn't make it through a single day with your strategy.
    Let's just say, your signature is particularly appropriate right now.

  7. #147
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Let's just say, your signature is particularly appropriate right now.
    Taking a shot at my sarcastic signature? Hah.

    Do you have any experience caring for a child?
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  8. #148
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Taking a shot at my sarcastic signature? Hah.

    Do you have any experience caring for a child?
    Yeah, I do, actually. Why do you ask?

  9. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Have you read any of my other posts on this thread? I said upthread that my ideal parental style would involve many rules, with strict enforcement and regular consequences. The difference is that the consequence would arise as a predictable effect (same infractions bring the same class of consequences) of breaking the rule, and not because I as parent want to punish the child (because far too often, it's more about venting anger at the child's expense than it is about enforcing the rule). The point would be to have the children recognize that when they break a rule, they're making a choice to accept the consequences, and that they're ultimately responsible for their actions.
    That sounds like the punishment style I received from my INFJ, INTP parents. My parents practiced what they preached as well. My youngest sisters got the lenient inconsistent version of that, which included bartering privileges. They turned out differently.

    My Dad gave me one warning the first incident. The next incident my older sister and I knew better, so there was no talking about it, just an "instant whippin'." Very effective!

    Case and point: the second time I inadvertently said "I hate you" to my older sister, I was riding in the back seat with her. My INTP Dad quietly pulled off to the side of the highway, pulled me out of the backseat (out of the vehicle) and spanked me with the belt. I knew what I did wrong the moment I did it AND I knew my punishment would quickly follow; there was no guessing. Honestly, I've never directed the word "hate" to another living-breathing human being again since that day. They taught me it's disrespectful, so thanks to the spanking motivation and good example, I never forgot the moral lesson there. I took it seriously.

    My INFJ Mom would sit down and talk nicely about what I did wrong first and then she spanked me. They didn't threaten, they just did and they were consistent. If it wasn't for them, I believe I would be a very different person today, so I thank them for that -- I believe I would be a very selfish, disrespectful, fowl mouthed, wild girl.

  10. #150
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Yes. By not letting the kids have access to video games in the first place without your consent, by having them stored out of reach or something to that effect. You see the difference?
    Lol! And what are you going to do when they climb to those 'out-of-reach' areas, unlock those 'child-proof' locks, and proceed to try and set up the video games right in front of you? What do you do when they simply decide that the pain that comes from doing their homework is worse than the pain that comes from being denied video games? Children will always try to test the boundaries if you let them get away with it.

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