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  1. #91
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Not always. Oftentimes, simply not getting caught is a better option - you get what you want, and avoid punishment at the same time.

    Of course, that only teaches that doing anything is OK if you don't get caught, and does not instill any sense of morality whatsoever.
    That's why you try to make it so they can't get away with much, and apply much stricter punishments if they are caught lying.

    Positive reinforcement and negative reinforcement go hand-in-hand, we are only talking about one side of the coin here. Besides, habituation and consistent socialization tend to instill a sense of morality over time even if positive behavior is initially forced upon someone-and this dynamic applies even more to children than it does to adults.

  2. #92
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    That's why you try to make it so they can't get away with much, and apply much stricter punishments if they are caught lying.

    Positive reinforcement and negative reinforcement go hand-in-hand, we are only talking about one side of the coin here. Besides, habituation and consistent socialization tend to instill a sense of morality over time even if positive behavior is initially forced upon someone-and this dynamic applies even more to children than it does to adults.
    That's a perfectly authoritarian conceit of child-rearing. Forgive me if I disagree. I guess the beatings will continue until morale improves.

  3. #93
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    That's a perfectly authoritarian conceit of child-rearing.
    :rolleyes2:

    Parent-child relationships are not analogous to adult political systems.

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    :rolleyes2:

    Parent-child relationships are not analogous to adult political systems.
    In this context, parent is actually referring to one of four main parenting styles, in which conformity and compliance are expected and the child is generally given little context or free reign with which to form their own opinions and beliefs. In this sort of environment, it is difficult for a child to learn how to take initiative or make choices without guidance.

  5. #95
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dala View Post
    In this context, parent is actually referring to one of four main parenting styles, in which conformity and compliance are expected and the child is generally given little context or free reign with which to form their own opinions and beliefs. In this sort of environment, it is difficult for a child to learn how to take initiative or make choices without guidance.
    Using hot sauce to punish lying is not indicative of a desire for conformity. And any parenting style that views compliance with explicit orders as optional will tend to produce spoiled brats.

  6. #96
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    Using hot sauce to punish lying is not indicative of a desire for conformity. And any parenting style that views compliance with explicit orders as optional will tend to produce spoiled brats.
    Any parenting style that centers around compliance with commands is by definition an authoritarian one. Some parents manage to raise respectful children without needing to give orders at all.

    You're also mistaken about parental styles not being analogous to political systems. Most political scientists agree that the parental style we grew up with will always be the power structure we compare other ones to. What dictator hasn't thought of himself as the pater patriae?

  7. #97
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    That's a perfectly authoritarian conceit of child-rearing.
    Yes, it is. Good observation.

    EDIT: It's also the approach I use. Did you have any questions?

  8. #98
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Any parenting style that centers around compliance with commands is by definition an authoritarian one. Some parents manage to raise respectful children without needing to give orders at all.
    I dare you to post a link to someone claiming this.

  9. #99
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Any parenting style that centers around compliance with commands is by definition an authoritarian one. Some parents manage to raise respectful children without needing to give orders at all.
    Without any orders...I don't believe that at all. Being functional in our society is not a default state for humans. We all have to be trained, one way or another, and that necessarily requires orders.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  10. #100
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    Yes, it is. Good observation.

    EDIT: It's also the approach I use. Did you have any questions?
    I picked up what you were saying loud and clear. As long as you're honest with yourself about that style, I'm not going to tell you how to raise your kids.

    I just remember my own childhood, being raised in that style, and the resentment it built.

    As far as raising kids without commands - clearly, that's not including instances of clear and present danger. However, it's perfectly possible to use a general "requests with consequences" approach; i.e. if they don't comply with the request, positive reinforcements are taken away. This is also known as the "authoritative" approach, where you're controlling the situation, and not the child directly.

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