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  1. #51
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    I just came across this thoughtful article on the ethics of Live Action. While I still believe that this matter is newsworthy I now feel a bit ashamed for not being willing to criticize the sting itself.

    http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2011/02/2529
    How else would these people be nailed, if not for a sting?

    This article really shifts the focus away from what truly is the issue at hand.

  2. #52
    Senior Member knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ignite View Post
    How else would these people be nailed, if not for a sting?

    This article really shifts the focus away from what truly is the issue at hand.
    gotta make sure our beliefs and will are forced on individuals , lets fabricate truths and take things out of context. thats what its really about is`nt it? manipulation control not really about god or love, about mans will about personal achievement of taking another humans rights to decide for themselves

  3. #53
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by knight View Post
    gotta make sure our beliefs and will are forced on individuals by fabricated truths and taking things out of context. thats what its really about is`nt it? manipulation control not really about god or love, about mans will about personal achievement of taking another humans rights to decide for themselves
    "Beliefs and will"? We're talking about victimized kids enslaved in sex trafficking... That's not subjective.

  4. #54
    Senior Member knight's Avatar
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    where are the real victims? I see alot of people trying to get their face in the news

    http://camelswithhammers.com/2011/02...hoods-support/

    I support planned parent hood

  5. #55
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by knight View Post
    I support planned parent hood
    I see that.

  6. #56
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    what the conservatives are doing to women's healthcare is sickening. Planned Parenthood is the only option a lot of young women have, take that away I promise you things will be worse. Also it's absolutley disgusting that in Georgia their trying to pass a bill that will make a woman who miscarries be able to be charged with murder and the death penalty. I'm surre conservatives but wake the fuck up and realize what you're doing is helping no one. Even if Planned Parenthood was/is covering up sex trafficking the sex slaves would not go other places so no one would know either. And confidentiality is important when it comes to things like that imagine you're a slave and you're master/pimp is a psycho and if he got reported even if it wasn't your fault before he got taken away he could beat you an inch from your death.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_827886.html
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  7. #57
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    What this woman did was undoubtedly wrong but extrapolating from a single incident to form over-generalized conclusions about an entire organization is just silly. In fact, it seems apparent from the video that Planned Parenthood has certain guidelines and legal obligations in place, and that the employee, as an individual, was sharing ways in which to work around those obligations.

    Providing STI/pregnancy screening tests =/= accepting underage sex trafficking. Planned Parenthood, when it's doing its job right, is providing valuable health services in a legal and safe manner.

    And confidentiality is important when it comes to things like that imagine you're a slave and you're master/pimp is a psycho and if he got reported even if it wasn't your fault before he got taken away he could beat you an inch from your death.
    I can't agree with this. Sitting back and allowing pimps to traffic in underage children because of all the horrible things they could do merely reinforces their power and perpetuates the problem. I will be the first to admit that there's no easy solution to the issue, but inaction will only serve to reinforce the status quo.

  8. #58
    Senior Member chachamaru's Avatar
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    This same guy is linked with the ACORN "expose".

    And... what he is NOT showing is how many people turned him away. He went to MANY lengths to get "bites" on his story. MANY turned him away.
    a cat is fine too

  9. #59
    Senior Member chachamaru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    Some of this may be true. But, when it comes to human life I like to stick to principles and not pragmatics.

    The incontrovertible fact is that abortion is the killing of a defenseless human being.
    Abortion helps the lives of the mother and future children or current children. Children cost money. And single mothers and kids are the POOREST population in the US. Conservatives are usually against providing them aid.

    So which is it? Kill the baby in utero, or kill the baby with starvation, crime, and other effects of poverty?

    If you're anti-abortion, pro-sex education, and pro-monetary aid, then you're in step with pragmatics and principles. If not, you're sadly stupid.

    I myself... am not necessarily pro-abortion. I am pro-information. I am for allowing a woman who is the victim of rape or incest to have an abortion. I also know that hardly anyone believes rape victims, and sometimes rape victims don't know it was rape. (LOOK UP THE PSYCHOLOGY OF RAPE AND SEXUAL ASSAULT!) And of course, if the mother's life is at stake.

    Abortion is ALWAYS sad. But we are NEVER called to judge because we don't know what happened. We don't know if a man is forcing her, or if she is making sure that her daughter won't experience the abuse she is experiencing. (TRUE STORY - LOOK IT UP!)

    Thus, I am pro-choice, but feel that abortion is always sad but should always be available because we don't know what's going on.

    We need to help women instead of hurting them. We were all born of one, and we will all depend on one.
    a cat is fine too

  10. #60
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ignite View Post
    How else would these people be nailed, if not for a sting?

    This article really shifts the focus away from what truly is the issue at hand.
    There are factual issues and policy rationale issues involved with the subject of abortion. Both are important.

    The factual issues are:
    1) Is an unborn baby biologically a human?
    Unequivocally yes.
    2) Is an unborn human baby a person?
    Yes/No/Sometimes are the popular answers


    But, even if everyone agreed that unborn babies were both humans and persons their rights would be dependent on the public policy rationale employed.

    The two popular public policy rationales are:
    1) Principle based- where an unborn baby's basic human rights would be absolute.
    2) Consequentialist- where the rights of the baby would be weighed against the rights of other individuals and society at large.

    Pro-lifers undoubtedly support a principle based approach to human rights. In doing so they are obligated to be consistent in their behavior and not elevate the ends above the means even as they seek to end legal abortions.

    Quote Originally Posted by chachamaru View Post
    Abortion helps the lives of the mother and future children or current children. Children cost money. And single mothers and kids are the POOREST population in the US. Conservatives are usually against providing them aid.

    So which is it? Kill the baby in utero, or kill the baby with starvation, crime, and other effects of poverty?

    If you're anti-abortion, pro-sex education, and pro-monetary aid, then you're in step with pragmatics and principles. If not, you're sadly stupid.

    I myself... am not necessarily pro-abortion. I am pro-information. I am for allowing a woman who is the victim of rape or incest to have an abortion. I also know that hardly anyone believes rape victims, and sometimes rape victims don't know it was rape. (LOOK UP THE PSYCHOLOGY OF RAPE AND SEXUAL ASSAULT!) And of course, if the mother's life is at stake.

    ^
    This is what I'm talking about. It's a weighing of interests. I believe that fundamental human rights are absolute and cannot be infringed on by other citizens.

    I would never say that slavery is ok. Consider a slave owner who is an elderly woman with a small income who was beat up by her husband and left partially crippled and in need of daily assistance. She is poor and only capable of affording the one time cost of a slave and not the cost of a regular nurse. The situation of the owner and her interests are irrelevant, because the slave has an absolute right to be free.

    Quote Originally Posted by chachamaru View Post
    Abortion is ALWAYS sad. But we are NEVER called to judge because we don't know what happened. We don't know if a man is forcing her, or if she is making sure that her daughter won't experience the abuse she is experiencing. (TRUE STORY - LOOK IT UP!)

    Thus, I am pro-choice, but feel that abortion is always sad but should always be available because we don't know what's going on.

    We need to help women instead of hurting them. We were all born of one, and we will all depend on one.
    Why is abortion always sad?
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

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