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  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    An institution is paid to teach, not to "persuade" their students to embrace their political beliefs due to the need for public handouts.
    You'd think it would worth that way, wouldn't you.

  2. #72
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I never experienced this bias, but even so, bias is a long way from brainwashing.
    I did, but I agree that bias is not brainwashing. One can, however, have explicit social and implicit (even if not usually intended) academic pressures in that direction, which was my position.

  3. #73
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    So, yes, use a bunk experiment and get a bunk result.
    I wonder how long most people on this thread will ignore this little detail?

  4. #74
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    An institution is paid to teach, not to "persuade" their students to embrace their political beliefs due to the need for public handouts.
    It's impossible to teach without persuasion. A physics professor in a quantum physics course must persuade his students that what he is teaching is correct, otherwise they will not value (and thereby retain) his instruction. There are varying degrees of persuasion, obviously, but to argue that teaching should be absent of it is ridiculous.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  5. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    I wonder how long most people on this thread will ignore this little detail?
    This is why when I had a journalist living with me in Dubai I refused to tell her anything about my job. Journalists are immune to evidence. I'm concerned that much of the general public is to.

    It's not important if you are liberal or if you are conservative; simply that you understand what you are being told and why and what the limitations are. Therefore you are actually acting in a responsible way in creating and using your opinion and it isn't just a fuss generated over a non critical prejudice.

    As I have said earlier, I would very easily be an extreme liberal by US standards; but I can't support the study, be it the method or the conclusions.

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    It's impossible to teach without persuasion. A physics professor in a quantum physics course must persuade his students that what he is teaching is correct, otherwise they will not value (and thereby retain) his instruction. There are varying degrees of persuasion, obviously, but to argue that teaching should be absent of it is ridiculous.
    We need to clarify your usage of the word "persuade". Profs do try to persuade students to learn their course material and this is fine. But it's not fine to teach in a manner that's clearly biased in one direction. That's not persuasion. That's deliberately influencing young and impressionable minds.

  7. #77
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    Let's pretend that there was no benefit and only detriment to you personally. Would you still embrace the Liberal mentality?

    No doubt there is a lot of brainwashing that happens at home too. Came from a liberal family. Am not liberal, conservative or libertarian in any totality. I think on my own, accepting and rejecting entire chunks of any political philosophy.

    Within the subjects and institution that I attended, there was blatant brainwashing. Also, academia relies on the largess of others and the government, including and especially any subject that has a lot of research and development.

    What political belief is your family?
    My dad is centre-right, my mum is centre-left and my sister is very conservative. Almost the entirety of my extended family (we are talking around 35 people) are centre-right to solidly conservative, in NZ's left-skewed political spectrum anyway.

    But I don't feel like their politics had an effect on me. Whenever I asked questions about such things as a child, my parents skirted the issue and told me that I had to make up my own mind.
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  8. #78
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    Let's pretend that there was no benefit and only detriment to you personally. Would you still embrace the Liberal mentality?

    No doubt there is a lot of brainwashing that happens at home too. Came from a liberal family. Am not liberal, conservative or libertarian in any totality. I think on my own, accepting and rejecting entire chunks of any political philosophy.

    Within the subjects and institution that I attended, there was blatant brainwashing. Also, academia relies on the largess of others and the government, including and especially any subject that has a lot of research and development.

    What political belief is your family?
    If I may be blunt, you sound rather bitter about it. Surely then, you have knowledge beyond your own experience that this kind of brainwashing occurs? Again, it might be a regional/US thing, I suppose, but it seems very bizarre to me (funding motives or not - motive doesn't equal action).

    (I don't have a problem with profs mentioning politics, though, in general. I don't think that should be off-limits, and I'm not surprised if most profs are liberal, for other reasons than wanting funding. Brainwashing is different, though)
    -end of thread-

  9. #79
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    If I may be blunt, you sound rather bitter about it. Surely then, you have knowledge beyond your own experience that this kind of brainwashing occurs? Again, it might be a regional/US thing, I suppose, but it seems very bizarre to me (funding motives or not - motive doesn't equal action).

    (I don't have a problem with profs mentioning politics, though, in general. I don't think that should be off-limits, and I'm not surprised if most profs are liberal, for other reasons than wanting funding. Brainwashing is different, though)
    Bluntness is fine but you`re assuming something that`s inaccurate. I`m not bitter but I am a bit disgusted by the bias.

    Don`t get me wrong. As previously mentioned, I don`t entirely reject liberalism, libertarianism or conservatism. There are elements of each that are worthwhile. There`s also a time and place for each philosophy. During critical economic times like the most recent global financial crisis, deficit spending was necessary. But when times start to improve, it`s time to start tightening the belt and stop deficit spending. When times are boom, that`s when the Feds should start paying off the debt.

  10. #80
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    We need to clarify your usage of the word "persuade". Profs do try to persuade students to learn their course material and this is fine. But it's not fine to teach in a manner that's clearly biased in one direction. That's not persuasion. That's deliberately influencing young and impressionable minds.
    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/persuade

    I don't think bias is a problem. If you're an intelligent person, you will see the bias and filter it out. And since we're talking about college students, not high school dropouts, I think most, if not all, would be capable of filtering out bias. The complaints about bias sound more like butt-hurt than legitimate concerns.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

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