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  1. #61
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    My understanding is that a certain side of the US conservative party caters to a certain fraction of the electorate which is strongly anti-education, anti-intellectual openness, etc. etc.; perhaps this fraction ends up lowering the composite average IQ. Conversely, a certain side of the US liberal party caters to strongly pro-education, very intellectual (sometimes excessively so) set of people.
    I don't believe this distinction can be easily extended to right-wing vs left-wing parties all over the world. I haven't noticed such type of bias in left-vs-right french or german parties, for example.
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  2. #62
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    You know, I'm pretty liberal about most things when compared to the average American (basically our politics is borderline socialist on the right wing even compared to your liberals), but I do have to fair regarded the evidence provided and the contextual boundaries given.

    We should be really careful because it defines "liberal" in terms of concern for genetically nonrelated people and support for private resources that help those people. It does not look consider views on abortion, gun control and gay rights.

    Even then the author Kanazawa himself states in the study the following caveat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kanazawa
    "the PPVT is properly a measure of verbal intelligence, not general intelligence.”
    So, yes, use a bunk experiment and get a bunk result. Similary I'm sure conservatives do the same biased experiments. But I would imagine that using both PPVT and WISC methods would be fairer.

    What we did identify is that people who are happy for the government to help the disadvantaged who are not within their family have a larger and better use of vocabulary: exclusively in America.

    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    I guess I'm just an outlier then...

    :rolli:
    I think considering the technical context of the study you might be in the liberals group anyway!

  3. #63
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    I don't believe this distinction can be easily extended to right-wing vs left-wing parties all over the world. I haven't noticed such type of bias in left-vs-right french or german parties, for example.
    You are probably right. The US, I believe, is unique in this sense. It's a largely Protestant nation (only 1 Catholic president, IIRC) with a strong fundamentalist contingent. Those fundamentalists didn't necessarily lean right or left until the Republican party decided to sell its soul for votes (thank you Karl Rove) and start catering to these fundamentalist anti-intellectuals. The Republican party hasn't been the same since. Intelligent men, like William Buckley, have been brushed aside in favor of idiots like Sarah Palin.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  4. #64
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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    I don't really care either way. Does might make right? Does IQ make right? Eh.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Sure there is...and my parents (right wing evangelical Christians) believe that studying physics can turn you into an atheist because physics professors brainwash you with concepts like "logic".
    My right wing evangelical Christian SJ parent really pushed hard on higher education, and thinks it's way awesome that I'm a science/math focused and relatively techie. My athiest fiscally conservative mom was good with it too.

    Do individual stories really matter?

  5. #65
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    I think it's to be expected that liberals would have demonstrated strong "verbal intelligence" (whatever that is) when they were young. Many of them remain glib children to this day.

  6. #66
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elaur View Post
    I don't really care either way. Does might make right? Does IQ make right? Eh.



    My right wing evangelical Christian SJ parent really pushed hard on higher education, and thinks it's way awesome that I'm a science/math focused and relatively techie. My athiest fiscally conservative mom was good with it too.

    Do individual stories really matter?
    Perhaps you should read the post that mine was a response to, then reevaluate the purpose of my post. Then you might want to delete what you just wrote. I won't hold it against you.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  7. #67
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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    Hmm I might be missing your point, I just wanted to make my comment. I didn't think you were trying to be negative.

    It really wasn't just in response to what you wrote (which i apparently misunderstood)

  8. #68
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    I never experienced brainwashing in college. I did experience a sense of people teaching others to be tolerant. If conservatives are so opposed to tolerances of differences, then yes, I certainly benefit from the liberal mentality to answer your last question.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    I did. What do you mean 'do I benefit'? Yes, I feel that I benefit from living in a world where people are tolerant and cooperate, and value community and not just finance.
    Let's pretend that there was no benefit and only detriment to you personally. Would you still embrace the Liberal mentality?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Sure there is...and my parents (right wing evangelical Christians) believe that studying physics can turn you into an atheist because physics professors brainwash you with concepts like "logic".
    No doubt there is a lot of brainwashing that happens at home too. Came from a liberal family. Am not liberal, conservative or libertarian in any totality. I think on my own, accepting and rejecting entire chunks of any political philosophy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    You know, I'm fully aware that it may be different in the states (or in say, political science degrees), but after going through undergrad and a couple years of grad school, I've pretty much never heard politics mentioned by a prof or by anyone at all associated with the university. Even indirectly. Let alone brainwashing. Why do you say that?
    Within the subjects and institution that I attended, there was blatant brainwashing. Also, academia relies on the largess of others and the government, including and especially any subject that has a lot of research and development.

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    I was liberal minded before university. I did see liberal leanings in my lecturers but then I took Arts. I doubt science, mathematics, law, commerce etc would have the same bias.
    What political belief is your family?

  9. #69
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    No doubt there is a lot of brainwashing that happens at home too. Came from a liberal family. Am not liberal, conservative or libertarian in any totality. I think on my own, accepting and rejecting entire chunks of any political philosophy.
    At home too? Brainwashing requires coercion, otherwise it's just called persuasion. Parents are a lot more coercive than schools. I don't think you can make a reasonable argument that schools are brainwashing students unless you substitute the definition of persuasion for brainwash.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  10. #70
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    At home too? Brainwashing requires coercion, otherwise it's just called persuasion. Parents are a lot more coercive than schools. I don't think you can make a reasonable argument that schools are brainwashing students unless you substitute the definition of persuasion for brainwash.
    An institution is paid to teach, not to "persuade" their students to embrace their political beliefs due to the need for public handouts.

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