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  1. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Architectonic View Post
    Really? I was testing your response.
    Why do you the feel to place individuals in tightly defined boxes? (this is a serious question)

    PS, I have only read parts of the thread, but I have read all of your posts.
    Oh you're not American that's why you don't understand.

  2. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elaur View Post
    Couldn't you as easily make comments about the low class baby daddies who are democrats? I don't get it really.

    If the study is true yay liberals. Still doesnt make liberal politics correct. If it's bunk then that's how it is, and isn't really surprising. If it's just going to end up another political tool then everyone gets screwed.
    The low class baby daddies who are liberal? I didn't think that type even voted.

    A lot of rebellious people who attempt to get away with minor criminal behavior on a regular basis have no interest in politics or our two party system in the slightest.

  3. #133
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    Statistical analysis techniques have been well established since the late Victorian era; I think there comes a point where we can say 'This is almost fact' enough for it to be considered fact. But also the scientific method pre-empts that. If you are measuring something in a dodgy way or perform the measurements on a very limited sample then you are deceiving yourself as to it being a 'measured fact' when it might be 'on to something' but isn't confirmed.

    On of the many tasks I routinely enjoy is designing oil pipe lines. There are standards we follow; such as API14E for erosional purposes which have been generated on statistical analysis and are overseen by a large board of specialists who monitor and update as new information becomes available. This is pretty common practice in all engineering disciplines because there are things which are viewed as required industry standards and are by law in the public domain.

    Psychological and medical testing have similar criteria based upon their own boundaries to establish cause and causation. These are generally that the result should be statistically relevant; and that the testing must consider placebo effect etc. In this case it isn't so much even a break with the statistical laws; there are more fundamental logical errors regarding how the conclusions were drawn from the base data in the methodology. It's just not sensible to draw the conclusion from this study that were given.
    I wasn't really referring to the study anymore. I was merely referring to this discussion of bias in higher education that seems to have cropped up in this thread. I was pointing out that as long as someone says the acceptance or rejection of a fact is a part of their ideology, they can say that teaching or not teaching that fact has ideological bias. In other words, the two are not mutually exclusive. Talking about global warming or evolution are two of the more common examples I can think of. Studying sociology, I run into a ton of these things. Ask many of the self-associated libertarian members of this forum; what I and most of the field's scholars call facts about social stratification they call politically biased conjecture. I call it imparting the latest knowledge, they'd call it political persuasion.

    So, trying to keep a school to teach only the facts is admirable, but probably futile, because you'll never be able to teach facts without also doing something considered ideological indoctrination.
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  4. #134
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    This is the best post here. The study is worse than meaningless, it's misleading as well.

    Still, I'm intrigued by the brainwashing idea. I'm curious whether it actually does happen for a non-negligible number of people. It seems unlikely, but interesting.
    Instead of brainwashing I prefer the term "drinking the Kool-Aid". Because a person chooses to drink the Kool-Aid. Every person who turns on Fox News is doing so by choice, so "drinking the Kool-Aid" is the best phrase I can use to describe it. Likewise people who see universities as unbiased, or even the salvation of humanity have drank the Kool-Aid.
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  5. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    So, trying to keep a school to teach only the facts is admirable, but probably futile, because you'll never be able to teach facts without also doing something considered ideological indoctrination.
    Ah I understand, but perhaps the most important function of education is not even to teach 'facts' or 'ideas'; it is actually to teach 'method'. Before university/college we are taught how to maths/english; we teach the methods of communication. With regards to university and college we discuss facts and ideas and learn how to form our own opinions more robustly. There is a very good argument for teaching debate and the scientific method in schools; most certainly between the ages of 12 and 16.

  6. #136
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    Instead of brainwashing I prefer the term "drinking the Kool-Aid". Because a person chooses to drink the Kool-Aid. Every person who turns on Fox News is doing so by choice, so "drinking the Kool-Aid" is the best phrase I can use to describe it. Likewise people who see universities as unbiased, or even the salvation of humanity have drank the Kool-Aid.
    I'd still like to know what exactly all this bias entails, if you could elaborate. What is the experience of these students? What do the profs say and do that screams bias?

    Very few institutions and almost no people are unbiased, but that is very different from actually teaching or "brainwashing" biased politics.
    -end of thread-

  7. #137
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    Ah I understand, but perhaps the most important function of education is not even to teach 'facts' or 'ideas'; it is actually to teach 'method'. Before university/college we are taught how to maths/english; we teach the methods of communication. With regards to university and college we discuss facts and ideas and learn how to form our own opinions more robustly. There is a very good argument for teaching debate and the scientific method in schools; most certainly between the ages of 12 and 16.
    If the method leaves God out, it is automatically wrong.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  8. #138
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    Ah I understand, but perhaps the most important function of education is not even to teach 'facts' or 'ideas'; it is actually to teach 'method'. Before university/college we are taught how to maths/english; we teach the methods of communication. With regards to university and college we discuss facts and ideas and learn how to form our own opinions more robustly. There is a very good argument for teaching debate and the scientific method in schools; most certainly between the ages of 12 and 16.
    Couldn't agree with you more.

    But the difficulty arises that when course material predominantly leans left, methodology can be impacted.

  9. #139
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    when course material predominantly leans left, methodology can be impacted.
    examples?

    Do you mean things like saying global warming and evolution are true?? teaching politics directly? somewhere in between?
    -end of thread-

  10. #140
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    examples?

    Do you mean things like saying global warming and evolution are true?? teaching politics directly? somewhere in between?
    I've repped you with the information.

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