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  1. #61
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torai View Post
    Also, how many people are laughing their ass off reading this thread? Am I alone?
    Actually, at this point, we've already had this thread 3-4 times.
    So at this point, it's not really funny anymore.

    I've pretty much put in my quota and will move onto bigger things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    I don't think anyone in this thread is opposed to gay marriage, though I will admit I do tend to skim these threads, so if you find someone, be sure to let me know.
    Okay. That did make me laugh!

    (Yes, skimming the thread means you might miss something...)
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torai View Post
    Wait, you're open-minded about polygamy, but not gay marriage? That's messed up to me...
    Why is that silly?

    Anyways to answer the questions asked me before:

    And hypothetically, what about someone who uses birth control because they could not financially handle a kid?

    Besides, don't we have enough people in the world anyway?
    To the first question: Human life is not a burden, but a gift. To those couples who have financial trouble providing for a kid have a few options. Put the kid up for adoption or even seek financial aid to help raise the kid. The government and many private charities are more than willing to provide such assistance. There's also fellow family members.

    Second question: No. In fact demographers have noted the drop in birth rates across the world. On a more basic philosophical level again I stress that human life is a gift and an end in itself, not a burdern and a means.

  3. #63
    Member Torai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    I don't think anyone in this thread is opposed to gay marriage, though I will admit I do tend to skim these threads, so if you find someone, be sure to let me know.
    I might have seen one or two. Nobody seems to be Bible-quoting, so that's good. It keeps the argument interesting.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torai View Post
    BECAUSE ALL-CAPS IS CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOL!
    Or Just for emphasis..

  5. #65
    Member Torai's Avatar
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    Yeah, but really, Arclight, everyone on the internet hates all-caps because it sounds like shouting. You should use italics.

  6. #66
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    Or Just for emphasis..
    Cool people aren't cool because they neglect to let people know they are cool. We all have to take the spotlight from time to time so others can see our great accomplishments, unique talents, or new insights.

  7. #67
    Member Torai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Actually, at this point, we've already had this thread 3-4 times.
    So at this point, it's not really funny anymore.
    Really?

    I wouldn't know since I don't have very many posts.

    Well, anyway, it was nice seeing all of the intelligent responses made by people. I personally made this thread to further understand the arguments made by people and have a calm political debate.

    Every time I tried to make a debate on Facebook, it started drama, so it was nice to have a change.

  8. #68
    Senior Member Moonflower's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Has anybody here actually made an argument in favor of those things? If not, why would defenders of traditional marriage be obligated to defend those things, or else they'd be hypocrites?
    Those are traditions which have been changed over time. If someone is going to say marriage should be traditional and unchanging, they better support those things. Otherwise they, too, are arguing in favor of a non-traditional idea of marriage.

  9. #69
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonflower View Post
    Those are traditions which have been changed over time. If someone is going to say marriage should be traditional and unchanging, they better support those things. Otherwise they, too, are arguing in favor of a non-traditional idea of marriage.
    Perhaps you should define specific traditions. "Traditional" varies from region to region, year to year, god to god, nation to nation. Traditions are some of the most mutable creations humans have ever manufactured.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Oh wow. Are you really going there?
    You're kind of just proving my point.



    Why on earth are you using all caps in your response?
    I'm glad you're not angry, or I might perceive that you are yelling at me.

    EDIT: Buddies? What are you talking about?



    Whatever. I'll wait for you to get done here and move on to the topic.



    Still waiting.



    Fine. I will concede that, since in your culture, gays can legally be married, your framework is different from mine.
    In my culture, they cannot be legally married, so when I hear this comment, it typically is just people blowing steam out their ass.

    I'm not sure what you mean by "special." I see a lot of groups "pride" parades, from racial, religious, and cultural perspectives. I mean, do you celebrate Christmas? Do you have a black history month where you are? You're bitching about gay pride parades; big deal, unless you want to remove all other pride parades as well. I can't help but feel like you are singling gay pride out more, for whatever reason.



    Oh dear. Are you really asking me that?



    I think you need to specify what you mean by "equal." Is there still discrimination on different levels with gays in your culture? I have no idea.

    I mean, just because blacks can marry (for example) doesn't mean they still might not need some anti-discrimination laws to protect their rights in other areas until a particular culture catches up.

    You are seeming to equal marriage equality with full social equality, which might or might not be accurate. Check on that one.
    You are still doing it.. I am in quite a happy mood and I am feeling zero anger or bitterness today.
    However I am aware my words might invoke emotional reactions in others.
    This is not my problem in a political debate.
    If you feel anger or bitterness from my words.. Those feelings belong to you not me.

    I promise you Jennifer, if I am ever angry or bitter , I will qualify it, OK?
    Otherwise I would appreciate that if you assume I am feeling something, to come and ask me how I am feeling, before you make assumptions, which are probably based on your own feelings, not mine.

    In the last week alone I was insulted 2 times by moderators. I am also regularly exposed to their psychoanalysis and assessments of my emotional and mental states.

    This is not the job of a moderator.. SO I am going to single out the authority that puts it's self above the rules it enforces.
    How can you be objective and fair when you mingle and form bonds with your subjects??

    I am aware that most mods have decided I am angry.. therefore I am constantly accused of being angry.. None have actually bothered to ask me what is going on or to explain myself.

    Then I am subjected to personal counter points and arguments based on my "perceived" emotional state, and my actual argument gets ignored.

    It's just a bit tiring.. That is all.

    so when I hear this comment, it typically is just people blowing steam out their ass.
    Thank you.. this is my point entirely.. If you had read everything I wrote and not just focused on your prejudices against me and others, and the feelings they invoke in you.
    We would not be having this discussion at all.

    Oh dear. Are you really asking me that?
    Yes.. I am .. I am asking you to prove when I am being hostile as opposed to when you feel hostility because of what I am saying.
    I am aware my ideas challenge a lot of people and their beliefs.
    SO what is under attack? Their own belief system is under attack .. The hostility they feel is not mine.. but theirs.

    I have made my point.. either gays are normal functioning members of society or they are special.. I personally believe who you have sex with holds no special powers at all.

    Acceptance does not equal special treatment.
    I accept gays and their right to live life and fuck who ever they choose.
    I am not going to treat them as different at the same time.
    Certainly not because of whom they sleep with.

    Equality means to me exactly what it is..

    I am a staunch believer that using intolerance to fight intolerance is the biggest fallacy and most hypocritical crime in western society.
    And that to me, is what is going on here.
    Feminism and racism use the same tools to fight their battle.. It just kind of blows their credibility in my books.
    It is not equality at all at one point.. It's punitive, oppressive and vengeful.
    It's just 2 sides of the same coin.

    It seems no one wants to face this ...

    And I do get frustrated.. Because hypocrisy will do that to me.

    But it's still not hostility and/or anger.

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