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  1. #281
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    I read the question as a "modest proposal" (aside from the proposal of marriage to Peguy, which was not modest at all) to see how the shoe feels on the other foot.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  2. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Alright, I think I've said more than my fair share here - including carrying along much of the last 10 pages. It's time for me to retire from the discussion. Carry on!
    Good job trying to masquerade your principles as facts! You nearly had me fooled. Try harder next time. I believe in you!

  3. #283
    Senior Member ZPowers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by perfectgirl View Post
    I really don't care about clever or values. I care about what's real and more importantly, logical. Gay marriage is not logical. It doesn't go down any easier wrapped in a delicious corn tortilla and topped with my favorite sharp cheddar cheese, dipped in a cilantro seasoned sauce, yums.

    Biologically speaking, if you can prove your case, I'm willing to listen to you. Otherwise, I'm not...
    Wait, is the argument here it is illegal because it cannot produce offspring? By that logic, shouldn't barren women and men, post-menopausal women and people who do not intend to have kids be barred from marriage?

    If you argue gay men choose not to procreate but can, then I'd have to say A) the couple who choose not to have kids still may not wed and B) does it not follow that people who fall in love with people unable to have children MUST abandon those people in favor of someone else, even someone they don't love, to get married because they are capable of it and have a responsibility? C) What if two men who shoot blanks or two barren or menopausal women wish to wed? Is it okay in that case? All that does is make gay marriage legal after getting tubes tied or vasectomies. D) Adoption is invalid? I'd argue it's better than having children. A kid already born who has little gains a lot, and it doesn't contribute to overpopulation (I mean, really, the time where every person needs kids, especially multiple, is over. Sorry really religious people)

    Your logic seems deeply tenuous.

    Oh, and this is all assuming that the point of marriage is procreation, which I find moronic and totally without foundation in the first place.

  4. #284
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    What do you people think about prostates?

  5. #285
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    Um, all men have a prostate and wanting it stimulated has nothing to do with being gay.

  6. #286
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZPowers View Post
    Your logic seems deeply tenuous.
    Yes, I think that's the one thing she's been very convincing about in this thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by beargryllz
    What do you people think about prostates?
    Guys have 'em?

    They often swell up when you get older and have to be reduced.
    Hard to take out because of all the nerves around them related to sexual functioning.
    Put out lubrication/fluid during sexual arousal.
    Source of pleasure, actually; and probably are equitable to the infamous "G spot" in terms of location and cell-makeup in females.
    Male anal sex involves stimulation of the prostate via the colon wall, it's the easiest way to get to the prostate.

    So it's part of male biology, serving both a reproductive role as well as sexual stimulation.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  7. #287
    Diabolical Kasper's Avatar
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    I think they have nothing to do with the topic of equal marriage rights.

  8. #288

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    I think the whole debate over the church and the word marriage is a way to stall the civil rights part. It should probably be set aside as a different issue.

    It seems quite insane that gay and lesbian couples can't receive the benefits of being "family" here, even if they are with a lifelong partner. It is sort of a blight on our perception of ourselves as having become more accepting and less prejudiced. People in parliament think it is just some debating topic and they have a nice discussion, put it up to a vote, etc. In that sense, it is racism and sexual equality all over again. Basic liberties don't really need debate or a vote. If someone is a lifelong partner then they should be able to be next of kin, have visiting rights in hospital, whatever ever other basic liberties they don't currently get because of the gay marriage debate. In terms of tax etc. they should also get the benefits of other couples. I don't get what the view of the church or the word 'marriage' has to do with any of that.
    Freude, schöner Götterfunken Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feuertrunken, Himmlische, dein Heiligtum! Deine Zauber binden wieder Was die Mode streng geteilt; Alle Menschen werden Brüder, Wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt.

  9. #289
    Senior Member knight's Avatar
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    maybe peguy might like this
    a gay guy and transguy fall in love, thereafter the gay guy decides to go for gender reassignment and become female. later this couple who are still madly in love, decide to adopt, I wonder if it is fine in the eyes of the church and state? would the church acknowledge this union or attempt at getting married?

    initially both were born male the other female.

  10. #290
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by knight View Post
    maybe peguy might like this
    a gay guy and transguy fall in love, thereafter the gay guy decides to go for gender reassignment and become female. later this couple who are still madly in love, decide to adopt, I wonder if it is fine in the eyes of the church and state? would the church acknowledge this union or attempt at getting married?
    initially both were born male the other female.
    I don't think the Catholic church would be too keen on the gender changes, but they'd still both be non-same-sex, so... It's simply that the "man" in the Church's eyes would not be fulfilling the image of masculninity, and the "woman" would not be fulfilling the Church's image of femininity, so that could be a mar on the relationship even if it's still not same-sex.

    And the adoption issue would revolve around whether they were considered to be sane/capable parents as well as properly reflecting their predetermined gender roles, despite their gender changes.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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