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  1. #181
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    It depends.
    On what?

  2. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    I agree with you that PC-ness can get ridiculous, particularly in Ottawa for obvious reasons. I don't think that this PCness implies any sort of attack on heterosexuality any more than I think "happy holidays" implies an attack on christmas or "firefighter" implies an attack on men who fight fires. It's just PCness, and some people like it more than others, that's all.

    Your arguments seem extremely polarized to me and I'm not American; I also live in Ottawa. I'm curious where your views come from since I don't see this happening at all in this city.
    Actually, Happy X-Mas, Seasons Greetings or happy X-Mas is an attack on Merry Christmas.
    Maybe you haven't noticed. But this is not a good time to be a white English speaking Christian.
    The gender neutral role names is not the same thing at all.
    Oppressing any group for any reason,even in the name of "sensitivity" to another group is still oppression.
    Especially if it's forced. Especially if you disagree and are ostracized and labeled for doing so.
    There is no reason in the world I should be told my traditional holidays are offensive to anyone while I am told to respect theirs.
    It's not even "can we live beside each other?" It put yours away and don't complain that others have theirs out.

    Maybe you are too young to understand what rights have people have lost over the last 25 years in the name of POLITICAL correctness.
    I am not saying you are not intelligent or that you age makes you stupid or something.. I am saying I have lived with PC since the beginning.. And it has nothing to with equal rights for all.
    It is all about oppressing the majority. I remember what life was like in 1984, do you? back then, we simply chose to get along or not.. and didn't need the thought police telling us to not beat gays up.. we figured this out for ourselves.

    My arguments are polarized.. Our human rights are being stripped in the name of human rights.. Anytime there is hypocrisy I am going to zero in on it.. If that makes me polarized.. so be it.. even if I am polarized.. in this instance I Know am I right. So I can afford to be narrow minded.

    You might also want to read a few books on propaganda and political control techniques before you tell me I am crazy.
    Or simply do a little review of what happened in Germany in the 1930s and 40's and what happened in Soviet Russia.
    That was all for the "good of the people" as well.

    Then, take a good look at what is going on around here.. It's just more subtle , because lessons have been learned from the mistakes of the Nazis and Soviets.
    But it's the exact same thing.

    And if attacking one sexuality because it doesn't include another sexuality, by saying a man and woman kissing on a holiday designed to celebrate love is offensive to gays.. and forcing the decoration to be taken down.. in the name of not offending anyone.. It's blatant hypocrisy..

    I ask where is sensitivity to feelings of straight people? Why are gays free to find heterosexuality offensive for its exclusion of homo sexuality and yet their sexuality excludes heterosexuals.
    If heteros are offended by this.. They are ostracized and labeled as homophobic or dinosaurs..

    This is blatant hypocrisy and anti democratic.. It's Soviet style communism.

    Just PCness? It's mind control and thought control.. If yiou read some of those books I mentioned .. You will find the 1st rule is.. "Get them to consent."

    By saying "it's Just PCness".. You have consented

  3. #183
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    Personally, I've never had anything against polygyny or polyandry.
    Unlike gay marriage, there is strong evidence to suggest that polygamy has very negative utilitarian consequences, particularly its consequences upon the advancement of the principles which underpin liberal democratic societies and which incidentally provide support for gay marriage. This is a major reason I keep feeling obligated to argue against both sides of the issue in these threads; there are unintended consequences to equating the issue of gay marriage to things like equal rights on the basis of race and gender, when a closer comparison would be outlawing certain religious traditions on the basis of secular drug/animal rights/etc. laws. These laws may or may not be right in themselves, but they need to be viewed with strict scrutiny insofar as they conflict with broader rights, and the issues are best determined in the political sphere rather than the courts, unless you wish to grant courts almost unlimited de-facto power.

  4. #184
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    Actually, Happy X-Mas, Seashttp://www.typologycentral.com/forums/clear.gifons Greetings or happy X-Mas is an attack on Merry Christmas.
    Maybe you haven't noticed. But this is not a good time to be a white English speaking Christian.
    The gender neutral role names is not the same thing at all.
    Oppressing any group for any reason,even in the name of "sensitivity" to another group is still oppression.
    Especially if it's forced. Especially if you disagree and are ostracized and labeled for doing so.
    There is no reason in the world I should be told my traditional holidays are offensive to anyone while I am told to respect theirs.
    It's not even "can we live beside each other?" It put yours away and don't complain that others have theirs out.

    Maybe you are too young to understand what rights have people have lost over the last 25 years in the name of POLITICAL correctness.
    I am not saying you are not intelligent or that you age makes you stupid or something.. I am saying I have lived with PC since the beginning.. And it has nothing to with equal rights for all.
    It is all about oppressing the majority. I remember what life was like in 1984, do you? back then, we simply chose to get along or not.. and didn't need the thought police telling us to not beat gays up.. we figured this out for ourselves.

    My arguments are polarized.. Our human rights are being stripped in the name of human rights.. Anytime there is hypocrisy I am going to zero in on it.. If that makes me polarized.. so be it.. even if I am polarized.. in this instance I Know am I right. So I can afford to be narrow minded.

    You might also want to read a few books on propaganda and political control techniques before you tell me I am crazy.
    Or simply do a little review of what happened in Germany in the 1930s and 40's and what happened in Soviet Russia.
    That was all for the "good of the people" as well.

    Then, take a good look at what is going on around here.. It's just more subtle , because lessons have been learned from the mistakes of the Nazis and Soviets.
    But it's the exact same thing.

    And if attacking one sexuality because it doesn't include another sexuality, by saying a man and woman kissing on a holiday designed to celebrate love is offensive to gays.. and forcing the decoration to be taken down.. in the name of not offending anyone.. It's blatant hypocrisy..

    I ask where is sensitivity to feelings of straight people? Why are gays free to find heterosexuality offensive for its exclusion of homo sexuality and yet their sexuality excludes heterosexuals.
    If heteros are offended by this.. They are ostracized and labeled as homophobic or dinosaurs..

    This is blatant hypocrisy and anti democratic.. It's Soviet style communism.

    Just PCness? It's mind control and thought control.. If yiou read some of those books I mentioned .. You will find the 1st rule is.. "Get them to consent."

    By saying "it's Just PCness".. You have consented
    It's funny because although I would tend to agree with PCness being overboard in many situations, this kind of attitude pushes me away from that viewpoint. Why must it be so dramatic? So....emotional?

    Besides, we're talking about gay marriage, not any of what you mention here. I'm still trying to see what your rational argument against gay marriage is (or your rational argument for it - still not clear which side you're on, exactly).

    edit: Yes, I think it's silly to make a big deal about a man and woman kissing or to imply anything about gay-hating from that. Lots of things are silly, especially when you get into politics and hot button issues
    -end of thread-

  5. #185
    Senior Member Fan.of.Devin's Avatar
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    I say "happy holidays" exclusively now, for the intent purpose of annoying the "PUT CHRIST BACK IN CHRISTMAS!!!!11!!11! D:<" types.

    Thankfully it usually works, too.
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  6. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    It's funny because although I would tend to agree with PCness being overboard in many situations, this kind of attitude pushes me away from that viewpoint. Why must it be so dramatic? So....emotional?

    Besides, we're talking about gay marriage, not any of what you mention here. I'm still trying to see what your rational argument against gay marriage is (or your rational argument for it - still not clear which side you're on, exactly).
    Because I care about my human rights.. because I am an F and I develop emotional attachments to things..
    And people who are pro PC get pretty damn emotional as well.

    We are speaking about political correctness because you brought it up. I was speaking about gays in Ottawa having a really good life according to political clout and average income, both which portray a community that is thriving. One that has political clout beyond representation for it's population and obviously if they make more money on average .. There is no systematic bias or prejudice holding them back.
    So I am speaking about why a group who is obviously not oppressed, oppressing another because they find something about that group offensive.. The issue of gay marriage is one that is steeped in hypocrisy .. not their rights to be married or to love each other..
    But the underhanded techniques and forcefulness that was used to force it on a population that democratically (majority) expressed it didn't want it.

    MY Point is.. no one asked me if was for or against gay marriage. They told me I had to be for it or that I was subhuman, a dinosaur or homophobic. That is my issue.

    FYI.. I have no problems with gays being married. I have no problem with Hindus or Muslims celebrating their holidays.
    Or women being my boss ( I prefer it)..

    Just leave my shit alone and leave me the freedom to enjoy my shit as well. Saying someone else's offense means more than mine because I am part of the majority is nonsensical. and Of course, it's hypocritical.

  7. #187
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    Just leave my shit alone and leave me the freedom to enjoy my shit as well.
    Sounds about right.
    -end of thread-

  8. #188
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    On what?
    At the most basic level, the relationship between human law and divine law. They're not the same, but you can't claim they have no relationship to each other. My citation of James Wilson earlier in the thread summarizes the basic relationship rather well.

  9. #189
    Senior Member LEGERdeMAIN's Avatar
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    But the underhanded techniques and forcefulness that was used to force it on a population that democratically (majority) expressed it didn't want it.
    What underhanded techniques?
    “Some people will tell you that slow is good – but I’m here to tell you that fast is better. I’ve always believed this, in spite of the trouble it’s caused me. Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba…”


  10. #190
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    At the most basic level, the relationship between human law and divine law. They're not the same, but you can't claim they have no relationship to each other. My citation of James Wilson earlier in the thread summarizes the basic relationship rather well.
    Are you okay with civil unions for homosexual people vested with the same rights as marriages?

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