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  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    thanks

    i agree with you, but i do have a hard time being upset with anyone who tries to push for expediency in earning equal rights. the majority will come around eventually, but that's not really fair to people who are born today, who will never get to be equal, you know? it's a hard situation.

    out of curiosity, do you have ideas for how people could balance not appearing to push for special rights (because i suspect that most people don't actually want special rights, but they feel like because they're disadvantaged in so many areas they will take as much as they can get - equality would be preferable, but isn't an option because of the continued personal biases of the majority) with expediting equal treatment?

    i like the idea of a sexuality parade, lol




    lol i know right. gets them off the market.
    I am not sure.. I feel to me what happens is this.. If it starts to feel "punitive" or kind of "now it's your turn"
    My issue comes from the idea that worst way to deal with someone who has a problem with punching people in the face is to punch them in the face.. It feels fucking great no doubt.. But it defeats your original purpose of proving a behavior is wrong. It blows credibility.

    What is the solution??.. To accept that people don't think and feel as you do.. That legalities exist to defend people against bias, but that ostracizing someone for ostracizing someone, is not the way to achieve your means.
    That laws can change behavior but not how people think. not right away anyway.
    That maybe understanding that if someone is against something that maybe they believe what they think or feel is right as well.. and to not label them with names or make personal attacks against them either for not sharing your views?
    The laws protect you. Trying to change someones way of thinking is BIG BROTHER..
    You set no new example. You simply fight fire with fire.. and then the whole democratic process submits to special interest.
    I guess that is my fear.

    Edit.. I just want to add.. that some gay people find the idea of straight sex disgusting.
    True, no?

  2. #162
    Senior Member IndyGhost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    The government discriminates against groups of people all the time. It limits some peoples happiness and gives and takes away privileges as well.

    The question is: on what basis may it properly interfere with people's lives?
    Discriminating all the time doesn't make discrimination okay. But, I'd say that our government has equally set up an ability to address these points, which is wonderful. This way, we can continuously evolve the government and the constitution to slowly, one by one, face these as more information develops. Such as, the topic of marriage and gay marriage. I do believe it is necessary to redefine marriage in the court of law, to encompass the naturally occurring phenomena of homosexuality and their desire to be recognized with the partner whom they choose.

    I'll do my best to be clear... but I often find myself with too many different things to say and finding a hard time with clarity. Anyways... When it comes to harmless human affairs, such as who one chooses to sleep with at night, why should the government meddle and have a say as to whether this is deemed wrong or not. So long as it's not a child, but a legal consenting adult... why should the government meddle or care if it's a black man with a white woman? I don't believe the government ever should have held the right to discriminate against it. And it's the same with a homosexual couple. Everyone should be allowed the equal right to marry who they choose.
    "I don't know a perfect person.
    I only know flawed people who are still worth loving."
    -John Green

  3. #163
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    Nah, you would just think they should suffer like the rest of us. My slam was against marriage not the gays.
    oh, hah! well, works both ways i guess.

    i was just being cynical anyway, lol

  4. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by LEGERdeMAIN View Post
    I don't see how homosexuality in animals can be used to justify gay marriage.
    It was presented only as a counter argument against the claim that gayness is unnatural.

  5. #165
    Senior Member LEGERdeMAIN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not_Me View Post
    It was presented only as a counter argument against the claim that gayness is unnatural.

    Perhaps.

    It's still irrelevant.
    “Some people will tell you that slow is good – but I’m here to tell you that fast is better. I’ve always believed this, in spite of the trouble it’s caused me. Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba…”


  6. #166
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    I had it explained to me.. that maybe I should explain a few things.. so people better understand.

    Here in Ottawa, the gay community has a lot of political clout. They earn more money on average than straight people and have a higher disposable income on average due not having traditional families.
    They have been accepted pretty much into the main stream . They can also legally marry.
    SO it seems that perhaps there is a communication breakdown because I am not taking about giving rights to gays, but rather about the effects of what some are fighting for.
    You can't understand my argument. because you don't understand how different things are here, and I don't understand how different things are there.

    Here in Ottawa.. the university was forced to take down a valentine decoration because it depicted a silhouette of man and woman kissing inside of a heart. The reason? Because it discriminated against same sex unions.

    So in light of the higher income, the political clout and the equal rights. there is still a need to feel this prevailing sense of persecution and unequal opportunity when statistics say otherwise.
    It is in fact the hetero culture that is under attack here.
    The irony is the Gays wanted to become mainstream and they have.. in more ways than one.. They in fact now discriminate against the culture they wanted so badly to be part of, by first claiming that they want to be equal and part of it, and then become such a part of it that they become what they used to fight against. Which is having someone else's morality crammed down your throat and being ostracized and labeled if you don't get with the program.
    They still end up rejecting what they wanted, anyway.. How? by claiming to still be special even though they are just one of the guys like they asked to be and were granted.

    I hope the difference in political culture clears up why my arguments might seem so polarized to many Americans.

    I am presenting the story after the fact,, and many of you are still fighting for that fact to exist.
    I am talking about your future, and you are talking about my past. This might explain a few things .

    Oh and I was also told I am working class.. So I am too well aware of the differences between the majority and minorities. That if I was a multi-millionaire I wouldn't care as much about the majority.
    This was ascertained, because I said everybody needs to stop whining so god damn much about their personal issues like they are only ones that know suffering.. We all know suffering and suffering is indiscriminate. No one's suffering is more special than anyone else's.
    This makes me a socialist apparently..

  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    The union of two souls and the procreation and rearing of children.
    Then you should be of the opinion that marriage has no purpose in modern society. Are you of the opinion that marriage is an outdated concept or, even, that it has never had any purpose? For you can clearly be in a union of two (and more) souls, procreate and rear without being married, which is basically a given since marriage does only exist in the mind.

  8. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    Then you should be of the opinion that marriage has no purpose in modern society. Are you of the opinion that marriage is an outdated concept or, even, that it has never had any purpose? For you can clearly be in a union of two (and more) souls, procreate and rear without being married, which is basically a given since marriage does only exist in the mind.
    Well certainly the internal logic of modern society dictates against marriage and family having any real useful role. Do I agree with that logic? No.

  9. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Well certainly the internal logic of modern society dictates against marriage and family having any real useful role. Do I agree with that logic? No.
    Does the legal institution of marriage, as it exists in modern society, even resemble your concept of marriage then? Does it deserve to bear the same name? I hope you agree at least that there is a difference between a marriage before the law and one before god.

  10. #170
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by perfectgirl View Post
    Come on Jennifer, you know better than that. Two females cannot procreate, just like two males cannot procreate. A man's asshole doesn't lubricate itself or lead to the 'magic' egg. Furthermore, I don't care about your skewed 'feel good' hippie philosophies or Joan Roughgarden's hippie book "Evolution's Rainbow" regarding animal sex. Think for yourself!

    The animal anomalies stated in your post have absolutely NOTHING to do with human reproductive biology. Nothing! Nor does the animal brain even compare to the human brain in size and intelligence. "Rationally then", the choice to override your discussion on animal homosexuality has to do with my superior intelligence and independent thinking. There isn't an animal brain on this earth that can outperform the intellectual feats of the human brain, so it's not surprising to hear about precarious animal instincts. I don't need double rainbows and Joan Roughgarden's research to shed new light on the well established scientific truths. Please! :rolleyes2:
    Stunning. Even Lark is miles ahead of you. Would you be so kind as to transform your 'argument' into some form of syllogism, so that we can all see how blind you are?

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