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  1. #61
    full of love Kingfisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hirsch63 View Post
    What is your ambition and do you feel that the system as it is currently configured allows you to achieve it?
    well my ambition has always been to have unique experiences, as many and as diverse experiences as i can. so i frequently leave america. but i think america allows me to pursue that fairly well, however i also feel like americans are sheltered, and that if there is a general consensus on the "american dream" a big part of it is that america should resist outside influences and cultures. that is not something i agree with, but i guess that is what makes it the american dream.

  2. #62
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Just for the record I am from Eastern Europe.

    To me "American dream" as it is looks like a fairy-tale. By this I mean that American dream is something that is unachivable. Especially since it contains a huge amount of illogicality in its core.


    I presume that it would be nice if I were to post more details ?

  3. #63
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    It is not the 'american dream' that is any way responsible for anything.

    But it is the interpretation of 'better' and the ability to weigh the costs with which one achieves the better that is responsible for this.

    European here too. And must say I'm with Asocial one on the fairy tale assumption. But for the sake of arguement, wanted to give my two centes.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  4. #64
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hirsch63 View Post
    In another post the "American Dream" was mentioned...How would you define the American Dream? And can you and those you know, realistically achieve your definition of it? What has it meant to your family?

    At it's most basic it would seem to be the ownership of private property, an achievement of economic independence and self-sustainability earned through productive work and behaviour.

    Was this conceit ever a reality for the masses, or just a tool to keep their noses to the grindstone in furtherence of the "American Reality" enjoyed by a relatively lucky and powerful few?

    Is the American Dream just as alive and vital as it ever was, and those unable to achieve it simply lacking sufficient motivation?

    And to my friends in distant lands...what is your perception of this Ideal? Is there a similar concept in your Nation? Do you see our concept (such as it is) as a strong influence on our behaviour?
    Well the American Dream has for a long time been striking it rich and enjoying the rich mans paradise like its enjoyed no where else in the world, except some tax haven like Jersey Island.

    However, I think properly understood the American Dream, which provided the impetus to the US independence struggle and afterwards, was the classical liberal idea of an unthreatening and very limited government. Therefore a country affording the greatest possible individual freedom. Matters of prosperity aside. Freedom might mean freedom to starve but its still freedom.

  5. #65
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    The American dream, by its traditional definition, is a consumerist trap will destroy us all.
    Those Americans who break free and make their own dreams, I applaud you.

  6. #66
    Senior Member Nonsensical's Avatar
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    I believe the American Dream was a real thing. I believe that there were people who trul believed in the things this country was built upon: freedom, happiness, and equality to all. I love this country because of what it stands for. I love America and the American Dream!

    It turned into an under-the-table money plot, though. It turned into one big hoax for money. it wasn't about power, necessarily, but money. Let's face it..how can you not put money into account? America is full of money. Resources, people to take advantage of for labor, and definitely a high demand. But the basic premise is still there. America really did offer freedom, happiness, and equality for many. There really were millions who moved out west in the 19th century and started new lives, there really were thousands who immigrated between 1892 and 1950 from other parts of the world, ventured upon the long boat ride, and were greeted by the Statue of Liberty. For millions, it really was the American Dream..and to say the American Dream wasn't real is to say that for these people, Liberty didn't mean a thing. But it did. So despite it's thorns, the American Dream was a dream come true.
    Is it that by its indefiniteness it shadows forth the heartless voids and immensities of the universe, and thus stabs us from behind with the thought of annihilation, when beholding the white depths of the milky way?

  7. #67
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nocap View Post
    Money.
    Yes. You said it.
    The poor dream of money.

    The rich dream of more money.
    It is called greed.

    The concise history of the Republican Party.

  8. #68
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    greed comes out of low creativity.
    they haven't come up with anything better to do.

    it wouldn't be so embarrassing thing if they could at least come up with a better way to do what they have come up with.

    that's a pretty big role for money -- pay someone to do the grunt work that you're not clever enough to manage on your own.
    we fukin won boys

  9. #69
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneWithSoul View Post
    I believe the American Dream was a real thing. I believe that there were people who trul believed in the things this country was built upon: freedom, happiness, and equality to all. I love this country because of what it stands for. I love America and the American Dream!

    It turned into an under-the-table money plot, though. It turned into one big hoax for money. it wasn't about power, necessarily, but money. Let's face it..how can you not put money into account? America is full of money. Resources, people to take advantage of for labor, and definitely a high demand. But the basic premise is still there. America really did offer freedom, happiness, and equality for many. There really were millions who moved out west in the 19th century and started new lives, there really were thousands who immigrated between 1892 and 1950 from other parts of the world, ventured upon the long boat ride, and were greeted by the Statue of Liberty. For millions, it really was the American Dream..and to say the American Dream wasn't real is to say that for these people, Liberty didn't mean a thing. But it did. So despite it's thorns, the American Dream was a dream come true.
    A man is no more innocently employed than when he is making money.

  10. #70
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nocap View Post
    greed comes out of low creativity.
    they haven't come up with anything better to do.

    it wouldn't be so embarrassing thing if they could at least come up with a better way to do what they have come up with.

    that's a pretty big role for money -- pay someone to do the grunt work that you're not clever enough to manage on your own.
    Exactly.

    Out of curiosity, see the post of whatever, number 39.

    Your posts are very accurate, Nocap.

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