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  1. #11
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    In a travel forum I used to be a part of, which consisted of independent travellers who in general were very opposed to the 'Corporate Wasteland' and materialism and everything 'society' told them they 'should' do, many people would reference the American Dream and scoff at it, and go at great lengths to be the opposite of it and snub those who followed it.

    So it was a common theme on that board for people to snub everyone with 'A house, white picket fence, 2.3 children, 3 cars, etc etc.' (and actually that phrase in quotes was a relatively common phrase on the board) That's how they defined the whole concept, and much of it was disdain for the 'Keeping up with the Jones' mentality - acquiring a lot of goods and money to achieve some sort of status.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  2. #12
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    1. opportunity to work at something I enjoy and be secure economically
    2. freedom to do, make, say, think, buy, sell, worship, smoke, drink, love what/whom I want

    We need to get back to these two ideals as a society.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  3. #13

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    From Wikipedia:

    In general, the American Dream can be defined as having the opportunity and freedom that allows all citizens to achieve their goals in life through hard work and determination alone.
    I like that definition.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
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  4. #14
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    From Wikipedia:



    I like that definition.
    I like it, too.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  5. #15
    Rats off to ya! Mort Belfry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hirsch63 View Post
    And to my friends in distant lands...what is your perception of this Ideal? Is there a similar concept in your Nation? Do you see our concept (such as it is) as a strong influence on our behaviour?
    My idea of it was captured in The Jeffersons theme song, "Moving on up to the Eastside."

    The concept in my nation, New Zealand, is that if you sit at home all day putting cigarettes out on your children, then the government has a big fat check waiting for you.
    Why do we always come here?

    I guess we'll never know.

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  6. #16
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mort Belfry View Post
    My idea of it was captured in The Jeffersons theme song, "Moving on up to the Eastside."

    The concept in my nation, New Zealand, is that if you sit at home all day putting cigarettes out on your children, then the government has a big fat check waiting for you.
    And yet, New Zealand is ranked above the U.S. in Economic Freedom indices now. I guess that the U.S. is a bit more regulated at the top end nowadays.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  7. #17
    Doesn't Read Your Posts Haight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hirsch63 View Post
    Was there a time when what you achieved/recieved in America was proportional to your investment of resources...presuming that all your actions were within the boundaries of law?
    This has always been true for a small, elite group in US History. Is it, or has it ever been true for everyone? Or even the majority? No and no.

    Oddly enough, the American Dream was created, perpetrated, and carried through American History as a propaganda device (a very effective one, actually). Motivating people to do dangerous things in the hopes of gaining wealth is a difficult job when very few actually do find an equality of investment versus return, but an important one for those that always reap the the rewards of American economic growth. Additionally, in order for the US to grow, economically, those that benefited had to be creative. For example, getting men to leave the safety of a Colony in order to settle new "free lands" in search of wealth and the American dream is difficult when the reality is that most will not survive, let alone make money. Hence, visions of great rewards have to be created and the challenges have to be limited, at least theoretically.

    This goes true for other events: Settling beyond the Appalachians; Settling the West; the Gold Rush; etc.
    "The only time I'm wrong is when I'm questioning myself."
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  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haight View Post
    This has always been true for a small, elite group in US History. Is it, or has it ever been true for everyone? Or even the majority? No and no.

    Oddly enough, the American Dream was created, perpetrated, and carried through American History as a propaganda device (a very effective one, actually). Motivating people to do dangerous things in the hopes of gaining wealth is a difficult job when very few actually do find an equality of investment versus return, but an important one for those that always reap the the rewards of American economic growth. Additionally, in order for the US to grow, economically, those that benefited had to be creative. For example, getting men to leave the safety of a Colony in order to settle new "free lands" in search of wealth and the American dream is difficult when the reality is that most will not survive, let alone make money. Hence, visions of great rewards have to be created and the challenges have to be limited, at least theoretically.

    This goes true for other events: Settling beyond the Appalachians; Settling the West; the Gold Rush; etc.
    All of those endeavors turned out to be astoundingly profitable.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  9. #19
    Doesn't Read Your Posts Haight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    All of those endeavors turned out to be astoundingly profitable.
    Yes. And vastly profitable for the elite group I'm speaking of.
    "The only time I'm wrong is when I'm questioning myself."
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  10. #20
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haight View Post
    Yes. And vastly profitable for the elite group I'm speaking of.
    Or, for the people who started out with nothing. Look at the homesteading of the American Midwest. That farmland (which was free on condition of improvement) is now going for upwards of $5,000 an acre. There were many ripoff artists back then, but it made a lot of poor people rich. Wealth is actually far more democratic in the United States than it is in most places in the world.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

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