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Thread: Feminism

  1. #81
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    Semantics. I'll try to think of some examples, though. The main thing that comes to mind, is those who think females should be allowed every career in the military...which is ridiculous imo. I can go into detail, but won't in this post.
    I would like to hear your justification for denying anyone anything based solely on their sex.

    I honestly don't see what the problem is really. I know plenty of females who are on their way to being more successful than I probably will be and don't appear to have had much trouble.
    The problem, for starters, is they are going to make less money than men who put in the same amount of effort. That is a fact. If they want the same access of resources, then they are going to have to work harder than their male counterparts. Also, less females make it to the top than men because many inequalities still exist and they aren't given the same opportunities. Appearances are very deceiving.

    Yes, I would say that generally they should be allowed the same opportunites. I am just saying that they shouldn't be expected to act the same. It just seems to me like guys are expected, more and more, to adopt more traditionally feminine attributes, and likewise women for masculine attributes.
    Would you mind providing some examples of these "expectations"? What is wrong with challenging the traditional conception of "masculinity" and "femininity"?
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
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  2. #82
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    :confused: That's exactly what I'm saying...

    I didn't intend to attack feminism. I'm saying that the people that take it too far are ridiculous. I don't have any problem with third wave feminism to my knowledge.
    Your definition of "too far" seems to be not that far at all, unless I've misunderstood you. If a woman can meet the requirements for infantry, why is it beyond the pale for her to want to do that? I'm not in favor of separate requirements for men and women- the requirements should be what a person needs to adequately perform the tasks associated with the job in question, and the job should be open to people who meet the requirements, regardless of their sex.
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    Senior Member nottaprettygal's Avatar
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    One thing I was wondering is if people think that there are limitations to feminism. Ivy mentioned staying home to raise her children, which would have been look down upon by the feminists of 20 years ago. Now women are encouraged to make whatever choice they think is best for their family.

    A trend I have noticed is what I will call "dirty feminism." It is the glorification of porn stars, strip aerobics, and college girls flashing their chests for a "Girls Gone Wild" t-shirt. All of these things are said to fall under the category of female empowerment. I disagree. What do you think?

  4. #84
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Your definition of "too far" seems to be not that far at all, unless I've misunderstood you. If a woman can meet the requirements for infantry, why is it beyond the pale for her to want to do that? I'm not in favor of separate requirements for men and women- the requirements should be what a person needs to adequately perform the tasks associated with the job in question, and the job should be open to people who meet the requirements, regardless of their sex.
    1. Women are generally not as phycially capable as men. There are very few women who could seriously ruck 100+lbs. for miles.

    2. Women would be a huge distraction when the vast majority (male soldiers) need to have their head in the game.

    3. Any guy worth half a nut would put a higher priority on protecting females than his fellow males, even if it is done subconciously. This leads to potentially rash decision making at a time when everyone's life may hang in the balance. And that is not even including romantic relationships.
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    :confused: That's exactly what I'm saying...

    I didn't intend to attack feminism. I'm saying that the people that take it too far are ridiculous. I don't have any problem with third wave feminism to my knowledge.
    There there Does it seem like we're gangbanging you? LOL JK JK! Don't kill me! keke

    It's not that we see you attacking feminism (I didn't) but your way of defining how fe/males should act implies you are restricting them to a certain role merely by impling "should act". That is your POV and to say you are allowing for differences for females becomes refuted when you add how they "should" act in accordance to how males "should" act.

    Yes, we note there are differences and that at this point time a female your height may or may not be as strong as you are if she bodybuilds. Or that some females are not suited for certain jobs or some males as well at this point in time.

    It's as we've mostly said, society changes, our views change and even the physiological aspects of our bodies change. New diseases crop up, physical maturation is either slowing (males) or increasing (females) due to alterations in the enviornment + bad nutrition (unhealthy food assumed healthy), obesity is altering genetics too and can increase epidemically as we are seeing.

    We see roles changed and it scares some people b/c they then feel as though their preferred role is attacked or they can't yet perceive the value belonging to another person.

  6. #86
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeliriousDisposition View Post
    It's not that we see you attacking feminism (I didn't) but your way of defining how fe/males should act implies you are restricting them to a certain role merely by impling "should act". That is your POV and to say you are allowing for differences for females becomes refuted when you add how they "should" act in accordance to how males "should" act.
    That's why I said I was wrong.

    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

  7. #87
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    1. Women are generally not as phycially capable as men. There are very few women who could seriously ruck 100+lbs. for miles.

    2. Women would be a huge distraction when the vast majority (male soldiers) need to have their head in the game.

    3. Any guy worth half a nut would put a higher priority on protecting females than his fellow males, even if it is done subconciously. This leads to potentially rash decision making at a time when everyone's life may hang in the balance. And that is not even including romantic relationships.
    So you would deny women who could ruck 100+ lbs. for miles the opportunity to serve? And you base your objections on women being in the military because men have a traditional problem with it?

    I would consider those reasons that we should allow women who qualify the right to serve. So we can change those traditional conceptions that have nothing to do with anything and no logical basis.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
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    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    So you would deny women who could ruck 100+ lbs. for miles the opportunity to serve? And you base your objections on women being in the military because men have a traditional problem with it?
    Yes to the first question.

    It is a tangible operational risk. I'm glad you find it funny, though.

    and protecting females isn't a "traditional problem"
    I would have no respect for a guy who didn't do it. Just so, it would be bound to happen on the battlefield.

    I would consider a large amount of personal experience "logical basis"
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

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    Quote Originally Posted by nottaprettygal View Post
    A trend I have noticed is what I will call "dirty feminism." It is the glorification of porn stars, strip aerobics, and college girls flashing their chests for a "Girls Gone Wild" t-shirt. All of these things are said to fall under the category of female empowerment. I disagree. What do you think?
    I don't disagree entirely but to say that it's how the media distorts it and profits off of those distortions which ruin the effort. I have no problem with females who rationally choose to become strippers/porn stars, what have you. But they are still dominated in a field where there is less control by them on how they'd choose to be depicted. There ARE female porn directors who have changed that by making porn what they perceive to be more "wanted" by women. I find it deploring for women to flash but they are given that choice to do so. I won't take it from them. I'd just like them to be aware, firstly, of what they are doing as I don't feel they possibly are. Being under factoring influencing during such "flash times" are alchohal, emotional mob rising mentality ("She's doing it! Let's all do it too! Wooohooo!") or self-esteem issues.

    On another issue that some people have a problem with are nudists. I see no problem with nudists who go to resorts or live at home nude with their family. They seem conscientious of their sexuality and use it in a way that is not threatening, not imposing and meant to offend people or to even entice people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    2. Women would be a huge distraction when the vast majority (male soldiers) need to have their head in the game.
    That's poor training then, wouldn't you say? Why should such wo/men be allowed to serve if not pyschologically tested to ensure that such a thing will affect them?

    3. Any guy worth half a nut would put a higher priority on protecting females than his fellow males, even if it is done subconciously. This leads to potentially rash decision making at a time when everyone's life may hang in the balance. And that is not even including romantic relationships.
    That is your own view on how males should act. I would think that given the circumstances one, whether male OR female, should make the decision that greater benefits the whole of the group. Even with romantic partners as fellow soldiers, it should be the same, in choosing over the best outcome for the group instead of the best outcome for that person.

    Again, wouldn't you say that it's indicative of poor training if they can't do as much?

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by nottaprettygal View Post
    One thing I was wondering is if people think that there are limitations to feminism. Ivy mentioned staying home to raise her children, which would have been look down upon by the feminists of 20 years ago. Now women are encouraged to make whatever choice they think is best for their family.

    A trend I have noticed is what I will call "dirty feminism." It is the glorification of porn stars, strip aerobics, and college girls flashing their chests for a "Girls Gone Wild" t-shirt. All of these things are said to fall under the category of female empowerment. I disagree. What do you think?
    My guess is some women think they cannot compete in the arena using the same weaponry as the men--intellect, wit, bravado, skills, you name it--because they were raised by people that didn't acknowledge them and praise them for those things, so they whip out the old "I'm sexy; therefore I'm powerful." because they lack the practice, confidence and the mentors to be successful as a being that does not flaunt one's sexuality.

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